Author Topic: The minimum wage machine  (Read 14234 times)

Offline Hajo

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Re: The minimum wage machine
« Reply #165 on: August 21, 2015, 03:30:27 PM »
Around 70% of the jobs in the US are governmental.  Find a problem with that?   I do.

The economy needs private employers and non governmental jobs to infuse new dollars into the economy.

Governmental jobs  are paid with private taxpayers monies.  The taxes governmental jobs pay are dollars paid from the private sector also.  Recycled private monies.

The economy is not good as evidenced by the large correction in the US Stock Market.  The economy is not good in China (2nd largest economy in the world).

Raising minimum wages by force is going to have a large impact on jobs.  Fewer.  Some jobs may even by lost, unless you have a job funded by the Govt.

Less tax money also in taxes.  Less money to pay Government Employees.  Vicious cycle we are all going to watch if this correction turns into a Bear Market.

Losses today were across the board.  Stay tuned.  Our Economy is no where as good as the talking heads have been telling us.  It still is poor.
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Offline zack1234

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Re: The minimum wage machine
« Reply #166 on: August 21, 2015, 03:50:52 PM »
See Rule #4
« Last Edit: August 21, 2015, 04:14:23 PM by Skuzzy »
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Offline FLOOB

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Re: The minimum wage machine
« Reply #167 on: August 21, 2015, 05:32:18 PM »
"Two world wars and one world cup.. I follow football quite closely and I don't remember the americans ever winning the world cup." Henning Wehn

 :rofl
I like this german guy.
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Offline guncrasher

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Re: The minimum wage machine
« Reply #168 on: August 21, 2015, 06:34:32 PM »
Oh, and I've actually "experienced homelessness" myself! More than once I've had to sleep in my clothes at the airport like a bum because my flight got cancelled and all the hotels were booked in some toejamty tourist country somewhere.

I was homeless back in 2001 for 6 months while making 50k a year.  my child support, gas and other expenses were eating up all my money.  I was able to afford a hotel room every 2 weeks on payday. 



semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: The minimum wage machine
« Reply #169 on: August 21, 2015, 06:57:17 PM »
That's impressive. How did you manage to get into that situation?
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Offline bustr

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Re: The minimum wage machine
« Reply #170 on: August 21, 2015, 07:40:27 PM »
Pushing everyone to get a business management degree starting in the 90's was a way for colleges and universities to make money from student loans along with demand from the business world. A perfect storm. Graduating with degrees in "English lit" and "Medieval History" was becoming the easy way to get a degree without learning anything valuable to employers. But, coming out of the 70's, employers required more than a High School diploma and a strong work ethic. While manufacturing jobs were just beginning to leave the US, and government spending in the private sector for the Cold War was going to end. That caused a big high tech industrial bust just before the PC tech bubble of the 90's.

The US became primarily a service economy. Pushing for getting masters degrees was another growth industry in public education to get at the guaranteed student loan money from the government. It was another way to eliminate competition for jobs from all the Eng lit, Mid Hist and BA Bus graduates. And woman's, gender, race and confused species orientation studies graduates. Unlike factory work that once needed many hands, well paying service industry jobs just like the hierarchy tree of many workers to fewer managers. Fewer middles class jobs to too many people with degrees. And blaming baby boomers for not retiring fast enough. Many companies don't back fill those positions. Outsourcing, downsizing, automation and virtualization is much cheaper than kids with degrees.   

The 90's tech bubble was a short delay to this reality because it had never existed before, and businesses were afraid to not throw money at it for fear of being left behind. When that bubble burst, automation and virtualization was the path to get rid of needing people and their fat fingers. The single greatest cost to a company is it's employees and all the problems that go with them.

My wife works for a private university as a corporate and business outreach coordinator. College in the US except for the hard sciences and engineering has become a student loan scam. That is why todays Masters Degree is about equal to a Pre 60's BA\BS degree when you were expected to work for it. And why many High School graduates today have to take remedial reading and math classes in their first year of college. And companies have been behind the initiative to test for work and life experience as part of the qualification process to earning degrees to promote from within.

In some localities, your High School diploma is the worst case of "Participation Trophyism" you can get.

Didn't the Japanese come up with a strawberry picking machine recently? Technology was supposed to free us from many of the evils of the industrial revolution when it came to the work place. Seems to me technology is too good of a good thing. It has completely eliminated the need for a whole class of people who will always exist, and need some way to feed themselves other than the government or charity. If you don't want misery defining your society's greatest economic achievement, after the "Service Economy" eliminated the need for fat fingered humans and the self affirming dignity of work. 
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline guncrasher

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Re: The minimum wage machine
« Reply #171 on: August 21, 2015, 08:51:04 PM »
That's impressive. How did you manage to get into that situation?

ok let me explain, child support, gas, tools, food and other expenses.  none of which were alcohol or drugs.


semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline Oldman731

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Re: The minimum wage machine
« Reply #172 on: August 21, 2015, 09:21:41 PM »
ok let me explain, child support, gas, tools, food and other expenses.  none of which were alcohol or drugs.


I think his point may be that you brought some or most of this on yourself, and that other people ought not to have to pay for your mistakes.

Probably he could say it more eloquently.

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Offline FLS

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Re: The minimum wage machine
« Reply #173 on: August 21, 2015, 09:50:54 PM »
It amazes me how many people have no idea that work has a market value. Paying more for labor than it's worth is impossible if the payroll is generated by the business. New businesses fail all the time because they don't make enough money to even pay what their workers are actually worth never mind paying them what they'd like to earn if they had more valuable skills.

The "free" money is always a con. You believe the lie you want to hear and vote for the liar.

Offline asterix

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Re: The minimum wage machine
« Reply #174 on: August 22, 2015, 02:32:28 AM »
It amazes me how many people have no idea that work has a market value. Paying more for labor than it's worth is impossible if the payroll is generated by the business. New businesses fail all the time because they don't make enough money to even pay what their workers are actually worth never mind paying them what they'd like to earn if they had more valuable skills.

The "free" money is always a con. You believe the lie you want to hear and vote for the liar.
Many people with low paying jobs look around them and see all the fancy cars, fancy clothes etc around. They see their boss posting pictures about trips to exotic places on FB and they don`t understand why can`t they have some of that profit they help to make. Not all people want to rise to the top and be the next Bill Gates or something. They don`t understand why their boss has to have a luxury lifestyle while they are working for scraps. Some people love doing their job and are willing to give their best for 8 hours per day. Many people including me have a feeling that some people are overpaid and some simpler work is underpaid and they want to change that. Sure some people work overtime and use all of their free time to study/work and can afford more, but that shouldn`t be the norm. I mean what kind of a life is that?
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Offline ink

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Re: The minimum wage machine
« Reply #175 on: August 22, 2015, 03:57:24 AM »
Oh, and I've actually "experienced homelessness" myself! More than once I've had to sleep in my clothes at the airport like a bum because my flight got cancelled and all the hotels were booked in some toejamty tourist country somewhere.


 :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl











lets face it....the world is not only in the crapper...but it is swirling around ready to go down.

Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: The minimum wage machine
« Reply #176 on: August 22, 2015, 04:23:07 AM »
It amazes me how many people have no idea that work has a market value. Paying more for labor than it's worth is impossible if the payroll is generated by the business. New businesses fail all the time because they don't make enough money to even pay what their workers are actually worth never mind paying them what they'd like to earn if they had more valuable skills.

The "free" money is always a con. You believe the lie you want to hear and vote for the liar.

Many people with low paying jobs look around them and see all the fancy cars, fancy clothes etc around. They see their boss posting pictures about trips to exotic places on FB and they don`t understand why can`t they have some of that profit they help to make. Not all people want to rise to the top and be the next Bill Gates or something. They don`t understand why their boss has to have a luxury lifestyle while they are working for scraps. Some people love doing their job and are willing to give their best for 8 hours per day. Many people including me have a feeling that some people are overpaid and some simpler work is underpaid and they want to change that. Sure some people work overtime and use all of their free time to study/work and can afford more, but that shouldn`t be the norm. I mean what kind of a life is that?

This is exaclty what I'm getting at  from both sides of the spectrum. We talk about "worth" and "skills". Sometimes that minimum wage worker teaches me so much about the product I'm looking at, that I actually buy it. What a worthless skillless idiot they were for encouraging me to buy it. There is obviously no skill in that.  Even though.. If they weren't there, id have walk away without buying anything.  But that person is just a floor customer employee. That doesn't take " skills" I'll pay her a BS wage because "anyone could easily walk down isles and provide easy customer service to sell products. "

So here we are undervaluing "skills" based on a "market value" that isn't accurate in an economy based on capitalism and true company growth.

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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: The minimum wage machine
« Reply #177 on: August 22, 2015, 04:44:56 AM »
This isn't about small business owners. This is about how you treat employees after you become a $15 million company and greater.

We need to make the economical sacrifice and raise wages as ethical business owners despite the value of increases in COGS. Despite the amount of jobs that might be lost. Creating economic growth is about making monetary sacrifices, but as a nation we need to raise the standards again. And encourage people that getting a job is actually worth something. 
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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: The minimum wage machine
« Reply #178 on: August 22, 2015, 05:39:26 AM »

I think his point may be that you brought some or most of this on yourself, and that other people ought not to have to pay for your mistakes.

Probably he could say it more eloquently.

- oldman

I intend no offense, but yes... I could be nothing if not more eloquent. I get that people can find themselves homeless for a short time having been suddenly kicked out by parents or spouses or landlords. But to be homeless for six months when you have a 50K job then you must have screwed up royally, or been royally screwed.

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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: The minimum wage machine
« Reply #179 on: August 22, 2015, 06:15:22 AM »
lets face it....the world is not only in the crapper...but it is swirling around ready to go down.

People have been saying that since biblical times, but human lives and the human experience has only improved. There have been short lived setbacks like wars and plagues, but we've always come out stronger and better. Extreme poverty is dropping like never before and is at an all time low in the world now, and it's only getting better. The world economy has tripled the last 20 years, and most of this increase in wealth is in the developing world. We in the western countries have seen a roughly 50% increase in wealth. Globalization is driven by new communications (mostly the internet), new markets are emerging (and merging with the old as well). The world grows closer and moving towards monoculturalism (through the merging of cultures via global communications). There is an unprecedented wave of uprisings against oppression and people are getting rid of their outmoded regimes. This "growth" can be painful and is fought against by extremists who cling to the old ways, but they can only delay the inevitable.

The world is becoming a better place every day for so many people.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 06:19:32 AM by PR3D4TOR »
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