Author Topic: Bad News Car Enthusiasts  (Read 6394 times)

Offline FBKampfer

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Re: Bad News Car Enthusiasts
« Reply #30 on: August 21, 2015, 11:34:09 AM »
Next gen?  I don't think so.

Come talk to me when a 700HP electric car can go 400 miles @ 75MPH, without stopping.  Until then, I'll stick with my 700HP gasoline powered car.

I watched as a helpless driver of a Tesla pull his car over to the side of the road, as it was dieing because he got stuck in start/stop traffic.  Told me everything I needed to know about electric cars being ready for the real world.

Don't get me wrong.  One day they will practical, but it will not be the next gen cars.  It is going to take a major change in the electric storage paradigm before they become practical.

Or we could just make more charging stations. Kinda like how we have gas stations every few miles.
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Offline WWhiskey

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Re: Bad News Car Enthusiasts
« Reply #31 on: August 21, 2015, 11:49:34 AM »
Or we could just make more charging stations. Kinda like how we have gas stations every few miles.
Do those charging stations recharge your car in 10 minutes or less, and cost around $40 per charge,, oh and that charge must last indefinitely, sitting in the garage, ( like gasoline or diesel)? 
can it be done, and profitable, without government incentives?
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Offline FBKampfer

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Re: Bad News Car Enthusiasts
« Reply #32 on: August 21, 2015, 12:02:12 PM »
Do those charging stations recharge your car in 10 minutes or less, and cost around $40 per charge,, oh and that charge must last indefinitely, sitting in the garage, ( like gasoline or diesel)? 
can it be done, and profitable, without government incentives?

30 mins is the number Tesla has stated, IIRC. And I would imagine it would be cheaper than hydrocarbons, since there are numerous ways to generate electrical power, almost all involving less work that extracting and refining petroleums.

And you can charge it in your garage, so no problem with the charge holding in your garage.
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Offline Randy1

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Re: Bad News Car Enthusiasts
« Reply #33 on: August 21, 2015, 12:11:38 PM »
Long term electric cars will be limited to a niche market.  Edison knew even in his day the future of the battery development was limited.  Batteries are the same thing that will limit robot development.

Another energy storage-delivery device is needed.

Offline WWhiskey

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Re: Bad News Car Enthusiasts
« Reply #34 on: August 21, 2015, 12:30:51 PM »
30 mins is the number Tesla has stated, IIRC. And I would imagine it would be cheaper than hydrocarbons, since there are numerous ways to generate electrical power, almost all involving less work that extracting and refining petroleums.

And you can charge it in your garage, so no problem with the charge holding in your garage.
to compete with gas, I shouldn't need to charge in my garage, IE pay to maintain the charge! And 30 minutes is three times longer than a fill up with gas,, time is money!

But we haven't even begun to address the actual cost, in money and the environment an electric car represents,  today most any economy class car is more viable financially and electric cars destroy so much more environment during the building, and the eventual destruction!
Of course I guess you could charge them with wind!  Lol
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Offline FBKampfer

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Re: Bad News Car Enthusiasts
« Reply #35 on: August 21, 2015, 01:37:08 PM »
to compete with gas, I shouldn't need to charge in my garage, IE pay to maintain the charge! And 30 minutes is three times longer than a fill up with gas,, time is money!

But we haven't even begun to address the actual cost, in money and the environment an electric car represents,  today most any economy class car is more viable financially and electric cars destroy so much more environment during the building, and the eventual destruction!
Of course I guess you could charge them with wind!  Lol


You don't have to, or you wouldn't have to if charging stations were as common as gas stations. But you could if long term storage were a concern (I'm unsure of any loss of charge over extended periods. But unless their lithium Ion banks are drastically different from any other forms of battery, you're good for a while. Not that letting a battery sit for months at a time is good for it, but it would still start.

And besides, I don't believe time should be money for moral reasons.

And there's hydroelectric, geothermal, direct solar, molten salt solar plants, wave-driven power generators are under development, and then there's always nuclear.
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Offline Hajo

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Re: Bad News Car Enthusiasts
« Reply #36 on: August 21, 2015, 02:06:12 PM »
Nuthin like hundreds of pounds of battery that takes least a half hour to charge.  I can see a 10sec electric car weighing 8000 lbs. or more.  Not gonna happen.

Anyone figured out what to do with the batteries when they are no longer useful?  Probably have to be destroyed by using carbon based fuels lol.
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Offline Skuzzy

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Re: Bad News Car Enthusiasts
« Reply #37 on: August 21, 2015, 02:32:46 PM »
Or we could just make more charging stations. Kinda like how we have gas stations every few miles.

That does not work when you are traversing miles and miles of construction which will last for years.  You have to be able to get off the road to get to a refueling station.  There are 14 mile stretches I drive everyday, which have no exits and have been that way for over two years and will continue for another two years.

Like I said, I watched that poor guy beat his steering wheel silly being so frustrated he could not do anything but call a tow truck.

There needs to be a paradigm shift in storage technologies before pure electric cars are viable to replace the current gasoline based vehicles.  Today's electric cars are novelties.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2015, 02:36:55 PM by Skuzzy »
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Offline FBKampfer

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Re: Bad News Car Enthusiasts
« Reply #38 on: August 21, 2015, 05:02:34 PM »
That does not work when you are traversing miles and miles of construction which will last for years.  You have to be able to get off the road to get to a refueling station.  There are 14 mile stretches I drive everyday, which have no exits and have been that way for over two years and will continue for another two years.

Like I said, I watched that poor guy beat his steering wheel silly being so frustrated he could not do anything but call a tow truck.

There needs to be a paradigm shift in storage technologies before pure electric cars are viable to replace the current gasoline based vehicles.  Today's electric cars are novelties.

A tesla model 3 has a range of 208-270miles.  Unless you simply neglect to charge your car, you'll be fine, no different than if you simply neglect to fill up with gas.

Hell, our prius is a 1st Gen, and I can almost make it to work and back on battery alone. The only obstacle to a 14 mile drive is human stupidity.

They're only novelties if we decide the inconveniences aren't worth the benefits.
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Offline Zoney

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Re: Bad News Car Enthusiasts
« Reply #39 on: August 21, 2015, 05:05:08 PM »
The difference is, with a gasoline engine you can borrow a gallon of gas to make it to the next station.
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Offline Skuzzy

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Re: Bad News Car Enthusiasts
« Reply #40 on: August 22, 2015, 07:08:40 AM »
A tesla model 3 has a range of 208-270miles.  Unless you simply neglect to charge your car, you'll be fine, no different than if you simply neglect to fill up with gas.

Hell, our prius is a 1st Gen, and I can almost make it to work and back on battery alone. The only obstacle to a 14 mile drive is human stupidity.

They're only novelties if we decide the inconveniences aren't worth the benefits.

My car goes over 500 miles between fill ups.  Heck, my Cobra will go over 400 miles between fill ups as long as I keep my foot out of it.  The range of an electric car can be measured in many ways.  I know a Tesla owner who says some days he gets only 50 miles out of his charge, due to traffic patterns.  Even he says they are only good as a secondary form of transportation.

If I get stuck in traffic and run out of gas, I can call any number of services to bring me a gallon of gas and be on the road in short order.  The Tesla owner is going to be towed.  No one does mobile charging around here.

You have not driven my commute.  15 miles.  Average speed 10 to 12 MPH.  I consider it a win if I get above 25MPH.  Try that in your Prius and see how long you battery lasts.  Driving conditions have a greater impact on pure electric cars (not talking hybrids) until there is a major change in the storage technology, they are not going to be practical for everyday use.
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Offline Masherbrum

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Re: Bad News Car Enthusiasts
« Reply #41 on: August 22, 2015, 07:19:30 AM »
A tesla model 3 has a range of 208-270miles.  Unless you simply neglect to charge your car, you'll be fine, no different than if you simply neglect to fill up with gas.

Hell, our prius is a 1st Gen, and I can almost make it to work and back on battery alone. The only obstacle to a 14 mile drive is human stupidity.

They're only novelties if we decide the inconveniences aren't worth the benefits.

I believe that you are trying to compare a pure electric with a hybrid.   Two different animals.
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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Bad News Car Enthusiasts
« Reply #42 on: August 22, 2015, 07:21:24 AM »
Plug-in hybrids are great IMHO. Like the Volt. Environmentally they're not worth it (like all electric cars), but they're great for reducing local pollution in cities, moving it through the wires as it were, to the electric plants somewhere else. Electric vehicles might become environmentally sound if all major electric production and transport (ships) become environmentally friendly as well, but not before.
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Offline Randy1

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Re: Bad News Car Enthusiasts
« Reply #43 on: August 22, 2015, 07:43:02 AM »
Wonder what a Tesla is worth when the batteries have to be changed out?  Wonder what it cost to change the batteries?

Battery cars will never be the main stay.

I suspect the future hybrids will feature energy recovery methods using air storage that use a single engine for both air and fuel.  Still will suck but batteries will have to go sooner or latter.


Offline SysError

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Re: Bad News Car Enthusiasts
« Reply #44 on: August 22, 2015, 08:05:36 AM »
And there's hydroelectric, geothermal, direct solar, molten salt solar plants, wave-driven power generators are under development, and then there's always nuclear.

I came across http://www.fueleconomy.gov/.

Interesting site.  Here is their info on Alternative Fuels in cars:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/current.shtml

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/atv.shtml
Where the Energy Goes: Gasoline Vehicles
"Only about 14%–30% of the energy from the fuel you put in a conventional vehicle is used to move it down the road, depending on the drive cycle."


They have a page on "Other Advanced Technologies"
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/tech-other.shtml

and "Energy Efficient Technologies"
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/tech_adv.shtml

I believe that you are trying to compare a pure electric with a hybrid.   Two different animals.

If you want to compare apples to apples or apples to oranges, use this page that they developed:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbsSelect

Their current "Top Pick"
2015 BMW i3 BEV
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=36016

Anyway, there is a lot on the site, worth checking out.



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