KI-84

[DmonSlyr]

The KI-84 is the best all around fighter plane in the game.

That is all.

Ehh, the F4U series will give it a run for their money in a high furball, 1v1, and if the F4U is attacking. But the KI84 is one of the best defenders in the game as well as one of the best vertical loop fighters. The La7 and spit16 are more versatile with speed, dive, and power. The K84 really excels in the defensive position which makes you actually have to fight to get out of trouble. Its overall speed, its bad dive characteristics, and mid to low alt range make it tough to be a great attacking fighter because it is easy to get mixed up with a bunch of cons at one time.  Those inconsistencies are imo, what keep it from being the best overall fighter.

Oddly enough, you don't see a lot of top 20 pilots (score wise who try)  in the KI84 because it is hard to stay alive when you constantly get ganged from being low and slow and not being able to escape the situation. 

[mbailey]

 

    Sorry my friend, couldn't resist 

[ink]

   Sorry my friend, couldn't resist 

 

[Rich46yo]

Oddly enough, you don't see a lot of top 20 pilots (score wise who try)  in the KI84 because it is hard to stay alive when you constantly get ganged from being low and slow and not being able to escape the situation.

Yeah but you dont see the top guys putting themselves in position to get ganged low and slow in any airframe.... period. From 5K to 15K the KI-84 is quite survivable. Under 5K your either running like Hell or dieing if your getting ganged.

The KI-84 may lack the dive ability to run like hell from a fight but it does retain the ability to regain energy and get back into one. The P-38 compresses too, and you sure as hell dont want to be low and slow on the deck with one, but from 5 to 15 K with its energy managed it can be lethal.

I honestly cant understand anyone who would make the claim the KI-84s guns are anything less then excellent. Its a premium, vs fighter plane, package. And a very good one vs Bombers as well.

[glzsqd]

Yeah but you dont see the top guys putting themselves in position to get ganged low and slow in any airframe.... period. From 5K to 15K the KI-84 is quite survivable. Under 5K your either running like Hell or dieing if your getting ganged.

The KI-84 may lack the dive ability to run like hell from a fight but it does retain the ability to regain energy and get back into one. The P-38 compresses too, and you sure as hell dont want to be low and slow on the deck with one, but from 5 to 15 K with its energy managed it can be lethal.

I honestly cant understand anyone who would make the claim the KI-84s guns are anything less then excellent. Its a premium, vs fighter plane, package. And a very good one vs Bombers as well.

The guns only positive attribute is their high rate of fire. They have poor ballistic properties and don't hit quite as hard as other cannon. Id much prefer the Cannons from the N1K or A6M5.

[Krusty]

The guns only positive attribute is their high rate of fire. They have poor ballistic properties and don't hit quite as hard as other cannon. Id much prefer the Cannons from the N1K or A6M5.

I think you're confusing the Ho-5 cannon on the Ki-84 with other Japanese cannons. The Ho-5 was quite good. The rate of fire was up to 850 rpm and the muzzle velocity was up to 750 m/s.

The Type 99, from earlier A6M models, was firing rounds at only 600 m/s, for example. It did this only at 520 rpm.

The Ho5 has about 30% or more mass per second of sustained fire time than its early IJN brothers.


Edit1: I realize that might be gibberish, so a comparison:

Hispano Mk II: 600 rpm at 880 m/s
Hispano Mk V: 750 rpm at 840 m/s
MG151/20: 750 rpm at 725 m/s
ShVAK: 800 rpm at 750 m/s


Edit2: http://users.skynet.be/Emmanuel.Gustin/fgun/fgun-pe.html

[DmonSlyr]

Yeah but you dont see the top guys putting themselves in position to get ganged low and slow in any airframe.... period. From 5K to 15K the KI-84 is quite survivable. Under 5K your either running like Hell or dieing if your getting ganged.

The KI-84 may lack the dive ability to run like hell from a fight but it does retain the ability to regain energy and get back into one. The P-38 compresses too, and you sure as hell dont want to be low and slow on the deck with one, but from 5 to 15 K with its energy managed it can be lethal.

I honestly cant understand anyone who would make the claim the KI-84s guns are anything less then excellent. Its a premium, vs fighter plane, package. And a very good one vs Bombers as well.

But you see, the best position to fly the KI84 is 8K and below. It is probably one of the best planes to defend against CV planes. I always use it to defend against large CV raids, it is quick and agile agaisnt low F4Us and seafires. The La7 or the 109f would also be great agaisnt CV raids.

However, this type of fighting takes a lot of skills and SA to understand the situation. You have to get quick kills and be able to out manuevers other planes quickly to avoid picks.  You have to be good defensively and understand defensive ACM. This is a challenging way to fly and it gets many people killed in their sorties, but you have to be aggressive. These fghts don't happen very regularly because defending bases is difficult.

Most of the really fast fighters like the190D, Temp, even the P51D, are a lot easier to be successful in because they are mostly flown at high alts and are generally carrying a lot of E when entering the fights. You don't have to defend as often because many planes cannot catch you. In most cases, fighting these planes Vs a KI84 is difficult because the Ki84 is in the defensive position while the faster planes can climb away and out of the attack. While the KI84 has a great accel speed, its overall speed is not that fast, even if the Ki84 out manuevers these planes, they can simple dive or speed away. It takes a very good understanding of defensive ACM like the BRD to be good with the KI84.

So while the KI84 is a great plane to learn and also a lot of fun to fly, it is actually a plane that is a pretty tough to be successful in in the MA if you aren't good at defending bases and setting up quick shots.

[save]

The La7 and spit16 are more versatile with speed, dive, and power.

Spit16 share the same dive problem as ki84 does, but does not lose parts as easy as the ki84 diving, but lock up in roll.

[bozon]

The KI-84 is the best all around fighter plane in the game.

That is all.

Pffff...
Only 1 engine, only 2 cannons, no navigator, is not made of wood.
I give it "OK Fighter" at best.

[Crash Orange]

See I dont think it "sucks" in a dive.

Yes, it does suck in a dive. It locks up and sheds parts at speeds where most Allied and German planes are just getting warmed up. It's great for base defense but every time I try to furball in one I find everybody just diving away from me, and when facing one in a furball it's just as easy to do the same. It can make you exit the fight but it can't really make you die unless it catches you low and slow or unawares (in which case any fighter can kill). I'd say it's the one really bad vice of the plane.

The guns are decent unless you're comparing it to 4-cannon planes. They go through ammo fast, but for mediocre shots like me that's really an advantage - I'll never get 10 kills in a sortie without rearming, maybe 3 or 4 and I'm out of ammo if I'm still alive at that point, but I do get kills on snapshots that I'd miss in other planes because of the amount of HE it puts in the air. Way better than six .50s in that regard.

Overall I'd say it's a good plane for bad situations. I don't think you can really say there's one best fighter in the game because there are so many different mission types that each have their own requirements. There are better jabos, better high-alt fighters, and better B&Zers in the game than the Ki; which is the best overall depends on how you rank the importance of those roles.

Had the IJA the resources America had, the pilot training recycling, the KI-84 sooner and better. Had all of this been on par with the Allies??? I think the KI-84 was a war winning airframe.

I don't know about war winning but definitely game-changing in the air war. Ship building disparity and fuel limitations probably still would have doomed Japan. The real war winner for the Allies was the submarine campaign and better Japanese fighters wouldn't have changed that at all. Of course, if Japan had had those sorts of resources it would have been a different war altogether. I don't think anyone, even in the US, really appreciated quite how massive the US' production capacity would be.

[ink]

Yes, it does suck in a dive. It locks up and sheds parts at speeds where most Allied and German planes are just getting warmed up.

it can dive to 500 and still be able to be pulled out....after 490ish if you are not easy on the stick parts will shed and after 505 or so parts will come off without input

it will catch diving away BnZers...but you need that good aim....to make the kill quick....

dethrottle and use rudder to slow down....and you wont ever shed parts....


it does become much stiffer at speeds over 475 or so...

I try to keep it below that....it loves the 300/350 range... at those speeds she is amazingly awesome and will give any fighter a tough fight and most it will absolutely dominate.

[Rich46yo]

errrrr, the title of the thread meant "Best Fighter" not "Best Runner". The KI-84 is not "terrible" in a dive but if to only "run" is your reason to play the game then so be it.

Its your $16.

I have found the KI, at normal speeds in a stand up fight, to be perfectly adequate in an energy maneuver. She is sneaky fast, a real "sneak" in the Immelmann , and as good a 2 cannon/2 MG package as you'll find in the game.

[Wmaker]

errrrr, the title of the thread meant "Best Fighter" not "Best Runner".

In the OP you said "best fighter plane". One attribute of a good fighter aircraft is the ability to get you home when the odds are very badly against you.

[Rich46yo]

In the OP you said "best fighter plane". One attribute of a good fighter aircraft is the ability to get you home when the odds are very badly against you.

Yes and I feel the KI gives Yu that. But I would have to agree its best in defense.