Control to stick deflection change with speed.

[pembquist]

It was as recently as 2 months ago that I finally realized what goes on when you can't pull out of a dive in a 109 etc. despite full aft stick unless you trim up. (If I'm wrong than somebody explain it to me please.) The game is trying to model high control forces and since even force feedback sticks can't really duplicate the feet against the panel two hands on the stick pull back with all your might it behaves as if there were a rubber band in the mix so that only so much force can go from the stick to the elevators no matter what the stick deflection is, adding up trim reduces the control surface force so the rubber band can deflect the elevator.

What confused me for the longest time was that I expected the stick displacement to be the control displacement and could not understand why trim would make any difference in the effectiveness of elevators unless it was the kind of trim that changes the angle of incidence of the tailplane.

[RSLQK186]

What confused me for the longest time was that I expected the stick displacement to be the control displacement and could not understand why trim would make any difference in the effectiveness of elevators unless it was the kind of trim that changes the angle of incidence of the tailplane.

On many aircraft it s done through the use of tabs on the trailing edge of the control surface. Not sure if it is all AC and surfaces, but I have seen it on elevators in game.

[pembquist]

On many aircraft it s done through the use of tabs on the trailing edge of the control surface. Not sure if it is all AC and surfaces, but I have seen it on elevators in game.

Exactly, the trim reduces the amount of force to push or pull in the trim direction but not the amount of stick movement to cause control movement. But since a game joystick can't replicate that it does something different, it moves where the surfaces are in relation to where physical center is with the joystick and introduces a rubberband to model high control forces. It's clever it just confused me because I've only flown little cessnas and learned to trim away control forces and couldn't understand how triming would make an elevator more effective without stick movement. I'm curious how hydraulic boosted controls are modeled and isn't the 190 an electricaly controlled plane? How does that work in terms of force feedback?

[FLS]

You can see this reduced travel at high speeds in the elevator and ailerons but you have to watch it live or film with Fraps since it doesn't save to AH film.

You can also see that the rudder never moves as quickly as you can move the pedals.

[RSLQK186]

You can also see that the rudder never moves as quickly as you can move the pedals.

This I have definitely noticed. Spent 20 minutes trying to adjust that out before I found I could not. But I got the feeling that I was altering it in flight model without changing how it was displayed visually. Could be wrong- would not be first or last time.

[HL117]

The Bf-109s did indeed have adjustable Horizontal Stabilizers or tailplane if you will, therefore you get the additional control with trim, I am no expert and cannot list which aircraft used this style or did not, I am sure many in here could provide that information if one were to ask.

[TequilaChaser]

You can see this reduced travel at high speeds in the elevator and ailerons but you have to watch it live or film with Fraps since it doesn't save to AH film.

You can also see that the rudder never moves as quickly as you can move the pedals.

While I am in agreement with FLS, I would like to add that the scale settings of each axis, will have a more pronounced effect when trying to get your flight controllers to move in relation to the control surface....the more scaling used, the more your flight controllers will be off!

I hope I have explained that good enough....

I personally, go in and click the advanced tab, then click the use scaling tab, then slide all sliders to the top .... everything set to 100% full real... or in general terms: the controllers for each axis are now 1:1 ratio....

In doing this, for each 10th going from 10-20-30-40etc left to right, means I'm getting 100% input 1 to 1 for each fraction of movement in relation of my control input to my control surface

Even though setting stick and rudder controllers like this, it does not mean it will solve a player's problem with flight dynamics and compression at the high end of your particular airframe's flight envelope....

Hope this helps,

TC

[FLS]

....the more scaling used, the more your flight controllers will be off!

Yes, that's sort of the definition of scaling. The actual controller position and the virtual controller are not in the same position except at the beginning and end of the movement.  It's a separate issue from the speed limit of the virtual controller response and also the limits imposed by air pressure ay high speeds.

[pembquist]

I have thought about building a force feedback simpit, it would take me a lot of time, but I guess I just assume its pointless as the software wouldn't really support it, and you'd end up with 100lb of force to move a stick that would still be rubberbanded.

[FLS]

I have thought about building a force feedback simpit, it would take me a lot of time, but I guess I just assume its pointless as the software wouldn't really support it, and you'd end up with 100lb of force to move a stick that would still be rubberbanded.

I'm not sure what you mean. Force feedback works well with AH. You wouldn't be able to move the virtual controls any faster at speed but you might feel the greater resistance in the stick as a signal that the virtual response is slower, depending on your hardware and settings. It's pretty cool to zoom up and feel the stick forces go away as you slow down then come back when you dive.

I still lament the removal of the FFB stick vibration that indicated the stall horn was on. A boon for the deaf and anyone who doesn't like the buzzer.

The fact that we all have the same "arm strength" to move the stick is like the 6g blackout. It levels a real life difference for game play.

[pembquist]

FLS I mean a FF system so there is no change in stick position to control surface deflection relationship. A system where if the stick is full back the elevator is full up but with big feedback motors so when the airspeed is high you won't be able to pull it all the way back physically. Same with rudders.

[FLS]

Is this for sim flying or working out? 

[pembquist]

I thought I would use it to run the refrigerator.

[FLS]

I thought I would use it to run the refrigerator.

Run a centrifuge instead, then you get radial g.