Author Topic: Monitors  (Read 2077 times)

Offline Zacherof

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Monitors
« on: October 12, 2015, 12:39:30 PM »
Does lit LED or LCT matter for the game?
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Offline Bizman

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Re: Monitors
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2015, 01:39:25 PM »
Only if they include image enhancing technology that can cause lag. The main difference is in image quality but again, there's more than just one variable.
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Offline Dragon Tamer

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Re: Monitors
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2015, 02:06:51 PM »
LED is usually better than an LCD because of a broader range of colors. LEDs can usually reach a darker shade of black than an LCD but there are exceptions. LEDs also tend to have wider viewing angles. There are some other advantages but they aren't really game changing so I'm not listing them.

If you are looking for a gaming monitor, generally there is no really noticeable difference between LED and LCD. Just look for a monitor with a low response time (5ms or less) and fits the size and resolution you want.

Offline Skuzzy

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Re: Monitors
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2015, 02:57:32 PM »
They are mostly all LCD today.  LED is in reference to the light type.  For lighting the LCD, LED is winning the battle over fluorescent even though fluorescent has been improved substantially.  In the LED class, there are a couple of techniques used to light the LCD panel. 

Edge lit, where LED's are supplied along the edge (cheapest and lowest power used as well, but sacrifices a bit of the black level quality) and backlit, where any number of LED's are used to supply lighting for the LCD (more expensive, more power, best lighting solution).

In the LCD class there are a number of LCD technologies.  All have pluses and minuses.  If you want the best color representation then you are going to have some ghosting in high speed motions. Going the other direction gives up color saturation and detail.

Some of the high end IPS LCD panels seem to be able to provide both color and minimal ghosting as well, but black levels are not the best, nor consistent.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2015, 02:59:21 PM by Skuzzy »
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Offline Zacherof

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Re: Monitors
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2015, 04:18:49 PM »
Thanks for the input guys.
Didn't know that much went into the monitors lol
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Offline MADe

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Re: Monitors
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2015, 10:22:45 PM »
 I have used 2 different SONY Bravia's, a LED and a LCD. The basis of which models I chose was the screens response time. I had 8ms with the LED and I have around 20ms with the LCD. For gaming you want low response time. LCD's seem to have higher response times than LED's as a general rule. Both my HDTV's have a max refresh rate of 60Hz. You can get them higher but I'm not sure there's a real benefit. Besides from what I understand, higher than 60Hz refresh rate is a software trick. The United States uses 60Hz power. I use none of the motion blur or other options.
I shopped them awhile before purchase. mucho options available.

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luck
« Last Edit: October 14, 2015, 10:33:46 PM by MADe »
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: Monitors
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2015, 05:46:48 AM »
Anything faster than 60Hz is not a software trick. 144Hz is actually the best I have seen, but if they ever make them faster I am all for it.

Originally, 24fps was all anyone could have, but that was movie theater standard because of the human persistence of vision. Any slower than that and you see it as separate frames and you will certainly see flicker also. It is not really a good experience to have over time. Anything over 60 fps is really hard to see composed as single frames, unless you have a system that tears the screen when you turn your viewpoint in a game, or if the frame rate drops drastically even for a moment. 144 Hz is just a great experience, because if you get 144 fps reliably you will not see momentary frame tears because your human persistence of vision cannot define the tear as quickly as it goes by (1/24th of a second as opposed to 1/144th of a second).

EDIT: I knew someone would have this persistence of vision thing explained on YouTube. Thank goodness it is SmarterEveryDay:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FlV6pgwlrk
« Last Edit: October 15, 2015, 08:21:51 AM by Chalenge »
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Offline Skuzzy

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Re: Monitors
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2015, 06:05:36 AM »
I will stress this as it did not seem to catch before.

Any flat panel monitor is LCD based.  LED simply means that is the backlighting used for the LCD.  Before LED lighting, fluorescent backlighting was used, and is still used today.

There is no such thing as an LED based computer monitor, unless you are talking some very specialized large format monitors (measured in feet diagonally).
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Offline MADe

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Re: Monitors
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2015, 11:06:18 PM »
Skuzzy I understood. The different generations of TV's use letters as identifiers, I just followed. My different TV's are defined as a LED and or LCD. Just names ultimately, good picture, yes, could careless about some of the finite details. he he

Challenge maybe I recall a HDTV forcing higher refresh with software or maybe motion blur. I know I read something about HDTV's and getting 120Hz, 240Hz but it not being physically true. Actual puter designated monitors are different tho, I have no experience since going HDTV.
Either way I have never experienced tearing in AH, just connect stutters. Always got 60f/s. no ghosting, 1080p/i.

After big screens so long, I cannot imagine a 24" monitor. maybe 1 day I will do a triple head out of HDTV's. he he
« Last Edit: October 16, 2015, 11:09:16 PM by MADe »
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: Monitors
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2015, 04:00:28 AM »
Traditional television used (uses) an interlaced scan approach to drawing frames. So, on one pass the odd numbered lines of a frame will be displayed, followed by the even numbers of a frame. Under this approach a 60Hz television actually only displays 30 full frames (60 fields), but the human persistence of vision creates the illusion that you are seeing a full 60 frames and motion on the screen appears to be fluid. In reality you are seeing 60 fields per second, instead of full frames. This is true for NTSC televisions like we have in the U.S., but for most European countries and perhaps others too it is a 25/50 approach.

If your television indicates that it has a progressive scan mode, then you are seeing each line drawn progressively until the screen image is completed to fill the frame. Thus, 1080i is an interlaced scan device, while 1080p is progressive scan.

When you get into the 120/240Hz range what you are talking about is refresh rate of the display more than you are frame rates. The higher the range the more likelihood you are to reduce flicker and improve motion rendering. So, on a 120Hz television the entire image will be reconstructed and displayed 120 times each second. On a 240Hz system that is 240 times each second. Does this mean you are getting 240 FPS? No. While the television is refreshing the image 240 times each second the image may only change 24 times each second, or 25 times, or 30. . . it depends on the signal input. In fact, in some cases a 240Hz system may not even accept your input signal depending on how the system is set (a 1080p/60 will not take a 24fps input, for instance). However, there are systems that can take a 24fps signal and interpolate 1080p/60 (via pulldown), but it does not create frames it merely repeats frames. There is nothing in your television that would allow it to create frames that do not already exist.

Likewise, if your system is synched for video output to video display on a 240 Hz display it does not mean that you are magically getting 240 fps. If you are playing a game and the maximum number of times the game is rendering on your video card is 48 fps then your display is going to be repeating a lot of frames. It will still appear to be smoother, but you do not magically get more fps. This is not to say that you cannot adjust your game settings to hit 240 fps, because that is completely different.

Just don't be fooled when someone goes out and buys a 240Hz television to play games on and they report "full settings" at 240 fps. No, they're not.
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Offline Greebo

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Re: Monitors
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2015, 04:31:15 AM »
I switched to a 120 hz monitor for gaming a couple of years back, I have a second monitor I use for skinning work which is better at reproducing colours accurately.

I found the 120 hz monitor a big improvement over the old 60 hz one for AH. Just having up to twice as many visual updates per second is a great benefit for gunnery. Also when skimming above the ground at low alt I get a lot less of the terrain moving across the screen in little jumps which helps immersion. Of course its only worth it if your PC will run AH at over 60 fps.

There are several different panel technologies used for LCD monitors, the main ones are TN, IPS and VA. TN gives the worst viewing angles and the least accurate colour reproduction but is generally the fastest updating screen so you tend to get less motion blur. IPS and VA have better colour reproduction and viewing angles but don't update the screen quite as quickly so may get more motion blur. VA panels usually have darker blacks than IPS ones. Motion blur can also be reduced by the monitor doing clever processing of the image so the screen technology isn't the only factor in this.

Most 100 hz+ monitors tend to be TN panels but there are a few IPS ones coming out now and at least one VA. Most are also 1920 x 1080 res but there are some coming out at higher resolutions now. Those are only going to be worth getting if you have a seriously good video card though.

Nvidia and AMD have there own technologies to allow the video card to control the refresh rate of the monitor. This can lead to less screen tearing and to smoother gameplay. If you have an Nvidia video card that supports G-Sync then it may be worth getting a G Sync monitor. If you have an AMD card that supports Freesync then it may be worth getting a Freesync one. A G-Sync monitor tends to be more expensive than its Freesync equivalent but most people reckon G-Sync does a better job than Freesync.

The other thing that is important for gaming monitors is input lag. Basically the time it takes for the monitor to process the image it gets from the PC and display it on the screen. This can vary enormously between different monitors. Also some monitors have a gaming mode that turns off a lot of the processing that improves image quality, but reduces input lag.

I find the following site to be a good source for monitor reviews:
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews.htm



« Last Edit: October 17, 2015, 05:38:47 AM by Greebo »

Offline MADe

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Offline bustr

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Re: Monitors
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2015, 02:43:41 PM »
MADe,

Followed one of the instructions about turning off internal motion smoothing enhancements. I have a Samsung 24" TV\PC Monitor using HDMI, so the PC Gaming mode is disabled. I did turn off the video playback enhancement\smoothing mode to make videos look better. I saw visual and motion improvements in both the alpha and AH2. I will up later to see how these effect online game play.
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Offline Biggamer

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Re: Monitors
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2015, 11:07:44 PM »
it about time for a new monitor, instead of making i new thread ill bump this one, anyone got any suggestions on what to get?
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Offline Greebo

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Re: Monitors
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2015, 05:30:15 AM »
it about time for a new monitor, instead of making i new thread ill bump this one, anyone got any suggestions on what to get?

This is going to be one of those "it depends" answers.

First what system do you have, in particular what CPU, memory and above all what video card? There is no point getting a much bigger monitor if your system won't handle all those extra pixels at an acceptable frame rate. Also some top end monitors work better with either Nvidia or ATI video cards. The amount of desk space you have for the thing might be an issue to you too.

What if anything do you do with your PC besides play AH? If you do any sort of PC painting or editing photographs you might want a monitor that gives very accurate colour reproduction. If you watch a lot of movies something that shows good deep blacks would be a good idea.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 05:31:57 AM by Greebo »