Recon, scout, and observation aircraft

[Skyguns MKII]

     We have certain observation/scout/recon (wel just say scout for right now) planes in the game already. This is a pitch that will allow for the purpose of introduction in more scout aircraft as well as allow certain aircraft we have to perhaps have a whole separate scout load out all together for example mossy, p38 and more. When i think of these certain aircraft i think of the abilities and load outs they may have such as cameras, radars, observation personnel and more. What if we used this in game?

     What if everything outside the your nations bases dar ring on the clipboard was just a blur when a new map just loaded? All that terrain and ocean must be discovered in order to put it on your clipboard map? You don't even have the help of a dar bar until you discover the sector it would be in and put in on the clip map. Sure you could fly though it with your pony D and you have already played this map millions of times and already know where bases are and how the terrains set but you'd be flying blind, Perhaps you found the base you milk runned a thousand times but now your off a few miles or perhaps its swarming and you had no idea. All this do to a sorta "Fog of War effect". What if your scout plane that you equipped with a observer and camera in the load out options could have prevented this? see where I'm going with this? The following is a list of equipment that a scout aircraft may have and what the effect could be in game. the following is up for discussion and is based off a 1 minute thought i had 

Observer loadout When selected in the ord hanger the observer will automatically discover terrains and oceans when flying through putting it on the clip map but does NOT locate bases. The observer can identify enemies from a farther distance and can also also use a certain number of "spotting report" that can be selected via backspace key but you may only have "x" amount. By using this spot option you are radioing in a enemies last known location within "x" distance, this means it must be a mobile enemy including aircraft and carriers and putting a indicator on the map. This excludes gvs because we have smoke for that and the indicator does not follow the enemy on the map. You are Only reporting LAST KNOWN LOCATION. I thought this was only fair.

non automatic idea - Perhaps another idea would be to change gun position until you are your observer and you have a circle like we do our tanks. Anything within the circle is identified up to a longer "x" range and when you pull the trigger is reported and indicated on map.

Naval aircraft range difference - IF scout aircraft such as the Catalina and kingfisher ever get introduced perhaps their ability to spot carriers should be better than that of spotting aircraft and opposite to those of land based.   

Camera loadout When selected in the hanger Locates and determines what enemy base was found within X distance and with X amount of film. If aircraft is shot down the base is still indicated on the clip map but origin and type is unknown do to "lost camera intelligence" when the aircraft was shot down. Just a white square with a question mark in the center and a dar circle will be showing on the clip map as a unknown base.

non automatic idea - I'm not sure how these cameras operated in relation to the pilot BUT! if images were manually captured via sight scope and not just fly over while praying you get a good picture to bring back, we could allow our players to capture pictures manually.       

Radar loadout not sure if these just included night fighters. But if they are for scouts as well wouldn't it be just like a base DAR circle but smaller? This ones for you guys i know this ones touchy 

With what has been mentioned i hope this may also eventually be introduced.
New branch of aircraft the storch can relate to.
Battleship Launched scoutcraft such as kingfisher.
Totally New branch of Scout Gvs that have a similar effect. 

I do believe this may change how the game is played and will mix things up a bit. I believe this more so when the new map first loads than anywhere else until its discovered to the point where scouts will then play a support role cv and aircraft spotting. Everything that's not yours is a blur on the clip map and without dar bars to first help you until you discover the sectors they would be in your totally blind. Making the fun of flying or hunting scouts extremely crucial to defend or attack properly. instead of upping a milk runner or interceptor when the game first starts you may find yourself upping a scout to support them in guiding the way. Not going to kid Upping a scout aircraft in game may be risky and at times you may be vulnerable, however it would be riskier not to take the risk as a nation.     


put some thought into this one so i hope you guys like it. 
Thoughts? concerns? additional ideas? I'm all ears. 

[715]

Ah, the idea that we have to scout to find where cities, towns, land, oceans, and rivers are located is ludicrous.  All that would be know before the war started and available on a Michelin map.  Airfields would probably be known ahead of time, but perhaps not which are actively used by the enemy.

However, it could be useful for locating strats, i.e. the locations of the HQ, AAA factory, etc. would not show on the map until discovered by a recon flight.  But then how long would it show on the map?  Also, the strat objects would have to be placeable in various possible locations and I thing terrains have to be designed ahead of time for that (don't want HQ showing up on the side of a mountain).

There is another possible historically accurate use for recon in game: BDA (bomb damage assessment).  The stats for % level and downtime could be made available only if a recon flight had passed over the specific strat and "assessed" the damage.  It would be necessary to remove the "xxx bldg damaged" instant message bomber pilots get however, or it would be kind of pointless.  Also, recon info should only become available if and when the recon pilot safely lands.

[Lusche]

There is another possible historically accurate use for recon in game: BDA (bomb damage assessment).  The stats for % level and downtime could be made available only if a recon flight had passed over the specific strat and "assessed" the damage.  It would be necessary to remove the "xxx bldg damaged" instant message bomber pilots get however, or it would be kind of pointless.  Also, recon info should only become available if and when the recon pilot safely lands.

This is the only way I'd think a recon element could be made workable and purposeful.
I'd throw in the reports getting more precise/detailed the lower you fly - or even better, you would have to fly over your target in a certain altitude band. Else most recon 38s/Spits/whatever would simply climb to >40k and be almost totally safe from interception.

[Skyguns MKII]

This is the only way I'd think a recon element could be made workable and purposeful.
I'd throw in the reports getting more precise/detailed the lower you fly - or even better, you would have to fly over your target in a certain altitude band. Else most recon 38s/Spits/whatever would simply climb to >40k and be almost totally safe from interception.

i like the idea of altitude effecting it, may be when using a camera load out you must be under 7.5 k in order to identify a base. Otherwise if your higher you would have to fly slower or take more trips. Sort of like a bombing run you have done but you missed half your ord so you have to loop around and make a second run. only instead of bombing your taking pictures and instead of dropping bombs your taking pictures.

[bustr]

And how are you going to force Hitech to do this in the MA where everyone votes with their wallet?

AvA and SEA ok, they sort of historically blind you and force you to sniff each other out as part of the package in specialty arenas. How do you convince people paying money, that spending their time on this is more fun than seeing each other on the MA wide radar and getting into the action before their first born takes his first drivers license exam?

In here everyone loves mental gymnastics involving their love of complexity, immersion and ww2 history. In the MA, once the shooting starts, they are paying to get into action as quickly as possible. Just flying 2 sectors for a furball is an insult to the short attention span of many. Doing anything that even seems to resemble starting out blind and using brail to build a map over time, they will log out on you. Or anything that vaguely resembles starting out with the results of having the HQ unable to rebuild for 120 minutes and having to do none combat chores for hours when they are paying to play combat.

Hitech recently had to change the HQ down time and damage amount because players were not interested in playing by brail to have an idea of what the map might look like. This institutionalizes it.

[Skyguns MKII]

Hitech recently had to change the HQ down time and damage amount because players were not interested in playing by brail to have an idea of what the map might look like. This institutionalizes it.
[/quote]

just an honest question here. Was it because of the brail or the fact they had a disadvantage because only that nation had too suffer from it? I understand what your all saying and learning a lot. If my idea wouldn't be applicable as far as what you have mentioned. COULD there be a purpose for scout craft and the load outs for reasons other than what i have mentioned?   

[Skyguns MKII]

I really got out of the ballpark on this one   

[Guppy35]

All kinds of recon birds in game.  Take a P-38. Empty the ammo and imagine you are in an F-5.  Take a Spit 8, empty the ammo and imagine you are in a Spit PRIX.  Take either version of the 51 and pretend they are F-6C or D.  You can keep the ammo in those.  Take a 17 or 24.  They did plenty of recce work.  So did 109s.

The list goes on and on

[pembquist]

I like the idea of having a PBY that when you over fly an enme cv with the location of said cv is visible on the map for say 30 minutes.

[Karnak]

All kinds of recon birds in game.  Take a P-38. Empty the ammo and imagine you are in an F-5.  Take a Spit 8, empty the ammo and imagine you are in a Spit PRIX.  Take either version of the 51 and pretend they are F-6C or D.  You can keep the ammo in those.  Take a 17 or 24.  They did plenty of recce work.  So did 109s.

The list goes on and on

You forgot the actual PR aircraft we have in the game....

Kinda funny, that.

(Mosquito Mk XVI)

[bustr]

The storch is for anything "you" want to do with it. Others will simply use you for target practice. It wasn't very good for stealing sheep if you were the only storch in that arena. Krabby kept eating mine with an He111.

[Skyguns MKII]

The storch is for anything "you" want to do with it. Others will simply use you for target practice. It wasn't very good for stealing sheep if you were the only storch in that arena. Krabby kept eating mine with an He111.

I think the storch is sweet to fly and would love to see more aircraft like it 

[bustr]

I want this. It can ping tanks with two front facing BB guns. And can defend itself a tiny bit better than the Storch. And when you mark a tank, you mark that tank. Someone will take a friend as a gunner up to TT in CraterMA and have fun.

Fw 189 A-1

General characteristics
Crew: 3
Length: 12 m (39 ft 4 in)
Wingspan: 18.4 m (60 ft 4 in)
Height: 3.7 m (12 ft 0 in)
Wing area: 38 m² (409 ft²)
Empty weight: 2,680 kg (5,920 lb)
Loaded weight: 3,950 kg (8,708 lb)
Powerplant: 2 × Argus As 410, 342 kW (465 PS - 459 hp) each

Performance
Maximum speed: 357 km/h at 2,600 m (222 mph at 8,530 ft)
Range: 670 km (416 mi)
Service ceiling: 8,400 m (27,550 ft)
Rate of climb: 8.3 m/s (1,640 ft/min)
Wing loading: 103.9 kg/m² (21.3 lb/ft²)
Power/mass: 86.6 W/kg (0.053 hp/lb)

Armament

2 × 7.92 mm (.312 in) MG 17 machine guns mounted in the wing roots, firing forward
1 × 7.92 mm (.312 in) MG 15 machine gun in dorsal position, flexible mount, firing rearwards
1 × 7.92 mm (.312 in) MG 15 in rear cone, flexible mount, firing rearwards (optional)
In later versions, MG 15 were replaced with 7.92 mm (.312 in) MG 81Z twin-barrel machine gun
4 × 50 kg (110 lb) bombs

[pembquist]

Thats the  Owl isn't it? I've wanted to fly that plane ever since seeing a clip of it on, (I think,) Wings of the Luftwaffe.

[JVboob]

The P38Fs that flew as recon could have the same GV spotting ability as a storch but with the ability to run away from cons minus the LAs Pnys 190Ds ect. quick accel decent speed great dive characteristics till 500mph. safer than a storch in any case.

the piper cubs that were used as spotters. then there the OV10 looking plane idk what it was called though.