Author Topic: I am beginnng to see red  (Read 2429 times)

Offline bustr

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Re: I am beginnng to see red
« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2015, 12:44:28 PM »
At least the lawyer's plan to allow a photo of the child had merit if the jury pool will be selected from the UK.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Hetzer7

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Re: I am beginnng to see red
« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2015, 04:35:46 PM »
At least the lawyer's plan to allow a photo of the child had merit if the jury pool will be selected from the UK.

lol what?

edit: sorry, not to be rude sir but that doesnt make sense, the crash was in oregon, and the suit was filed in oregon:

http://media.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/other/experimental.crash.suit.pdf
« Last Edit: October 21, 2015, 05:00:05 PM by Hetzer7 »

Offline bustr

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Re: I am beginnng to see red
« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2015, 05:10:52 PM »
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2015/10/family_of_girl_4_who_perished.html

Interesting when I first went there the child's and families' pictures were posted. They have been pulled.

The article is after the accident report was released and the plaintiff's lawyer filed suit. A picture of the child was included along with family members but, now only that of the RV10 is there. Still the child's picture had the desired effect on one AH forum reader in the UK. It is a Lawyer's trick to do things like that especially with a willing reporter helping. Public pressure from readers probably got those pictures pulled. Still the damage is done to the local jury pool. This will be a civil case it looks like, which doesn't require the full jury to unanimously find the kit plane manufacturer guilty.

Think of it like those humane society ads that show abused dogs and cats with an actress pressing all of your sympathy buttons with her voice while you watch the animals shiver. So it worked at least for one person living in the UK if you read back through all of this post. 
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Hetzer7

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Re: I am beginnng to see red
« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2015, 05:13:07 PM »
I see, yes i saw the picture of the girl as well; they must have pulled it for being too inflammatory I guess

Offline Oldman731

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Re: I am beginnng to see red
« Reply #34 on: October 22, 2015, 09:02:27 AM »
Also in addition to Vans, they are suing the maker of the fuel flow TX, calling it defective.  Because, apparently... ... I guess fuel flow TXers are somehow supposed to work flawlessly, even when they are clogged with silicon.


In fact, this appears to be the heart of the case.  The complaint - after all the cocktail party talk about FAA standards - focuses on whether the fuel transducer had an adequate bypass system, whether it required a special connector sealant, and whether the transducer manufacturer and/or Vans disclosed those requirements to the builder.  A&P folks on these boards know more about those things than I do, but if true (and if they're the cause of the engine stoppage), there's nothing remarkable about this lawsuit.

- oldman

Offline Hetzer7

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Re: I am beginnng to see red
« Reply #35 on: October 22, 2015, 11:47:26 AM »

In fact, this appears to be the heart of the case.  The complaint - after all the cocktail party talk about FAA standards - focuses on whether the fuel transducer had an adequate bypass system, whether it required a special connector sealant, and whether the transducer manufacturer and/or Vans disclosed those requirements to the builder.  A&P folks on these boards know more about those things than I do, but if true (and if they're the cause of the engine stoppage), there's nothing remarkable about this lawsuit.

- oldman

I'm an A+P and I can say unreservedly the guy was an idiot to use RTV silicon in a gas application. You don't use silicon on gas. This is Maintenance 101 here. The only place to use RTV on an aircraft that I can think of is to seal little holes or gaps in firewalls, repair a soft seal on engine cooling baffles, etc. You really shouldn't be using any sealant anywhere on a fuel line as it should be all compression seals using flared braided and/or formed lines/AN fittings. At the fuel tank if sealant is needed you use a specialized gas sealant and as little as possible, let the gaskets do most of the work there. Also, if he used Permatex brand RTV then he went against the manufacturer's recommended usage.

Not surprisingly, according to the NTSB the most common form of mechanical failure leading to crashes on experimental category aircraft is engine stoppage due to fuel starvation during takeoff or climb out, exactly what happened here.  Almost always the cause is improper maintenance practice and it often happens on the maiden flight or first 10 hours of flight time.



Offline Oldman731

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Re: I am beginnng to see red
« Reply #36 on: October 22, 2015, 12:28:03 PM »
I'm an A+P and I can say unreservedly the guy was an idiot to use RTV silicon in a gas application. You don't use silicon on gas.


Thanks!  Good to know.  But...how would John Q. Citizen know such a thing?  Certainly I didn't until I read your post.

- oldman (now better informed)

Offline Bizman

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Re: I am beginnng to see red
« Reply #37 on: October 22, 2015, 12:37:56 PM »

Thanks!  Good to know.  But...how would John Q. Citizen know such a thing?  Certainly I didn't until I read your post.

- oldman (now better informed)
Simple rule of thumb: If your life depends on it, ask, don't guess.
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Offline Hetzer7

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Re: I am beginnng to see red
« Reply #38 on: October 22, 2015, 02:52:25 PM »
This it what the installation should look like RV10: the electric fuel pump is the lower right larger pump unit looking thing with outlet pointed toward the camera view, and the flowmeter (transducer) is the smaller unit middle left, it is always inline between the pump and the engine. Ok thing of beauty right? nice formed hardlines and braided steel. Dont see any gobs of RTV silicon do ya? where the heck would you do that? fuel tank outlet pipe im guessing???  Anyway thats what I dont get. This guy spent 45000 for the kit, gotta figure at least double that for all the other stuff (engine prop instruments radio nav etc etc etc etc ,PLUS spent 2000 hrs (full year 8 hrs a day) to build it, Flys it:then uses silicon globs like a fourteen year old. Im dumbfounded, seriously




Offline Randy1

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Re: I am beginnng to see red
« Reply #39 on: October 22, 2015, 03:43:03 PM »
The RV-10 that went down just south of us a few weeks back just adds to the question has the home built aircraft taken a bad turn.  To much hype maybe by the kit sellers maybe?.

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2015/09/fatal-accident-occurred-september-16.html

Offline Hetzer7

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Re: I am beginnng to see red
« Reply #40 on: October 22, 2015, 03:58:51 PM »
Holy cow this is the actual plane, look at the paintjob /geez!





Offline pembquist

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Re: I am beginnng to see red
« Reply #41 on: October 22, 2015, 05:33:31 PM »

Thanks!  Good to know.  But...how would John Q. Citizen know such a thing?  Certainly I didn't until I read your post.

- oldman (now better informed)

The same way John Q Citizen knows how to put in a new electric panel they bought from Home Depot.
Pies not kicks.

Offline colmbo

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Re: I am beginnng to see red
« Reply #42 on: October 22, 2015, 06:26:21 PM »
The RV-10 that went down just south of us a few weeks back just adds to the question has the home built aircraft taken a bad turn.  To much hype maybe by the kit sellers maybe?.

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2015/09/fatal-accident-occurred-september-16.html

Why would you think the type of aircraft matters in this case?  It reads like either someone yanking and banking and flying into the ground or the pilot being disoriented.  On a dark night with few lights on the ground you're flying by instruments regardless if the regs deemed it to be VFR or IMC.
Columbo

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Fate whispers to the warrior "You cannot withstand the storm" and the warrior whispers back "I AM THE STORM"

Offline bustr

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Re: I am beginnng to see red
« Reply #43 on: October 22, 2015, 06:39:12 PM »
The RV-10 that went down just south of us a few weeks back just adds to the question has the home built aircraft taken a bad turn.  To much hype maybe by the kit sellers maybe?.

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2015/09/fatal-accident-occurred-september-16.html

According to a preliminary investigation, the kit plane had four seats and had five passengers.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Randy1

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Re: I am beginnng to see red
« Reply #44 on: October 22, 2015, 09:09:07 PM »
Why would you think the type of aircraft matters in this case?  It reads like either someone yanking and banking and flying into the ground or the pilot being disoriented.  On a dark night with few lights on the ground you're flying by instruments regardless if the regs deemed it to be VFR or IMC.

The type of airplane has nothing to do with the crash.  The arrogance of the kit builders is.