Russian airliner with 224 aboard crashes in Sinai

[rpm]

I'm not sure if you're purposely being silly or if you're really that uneducated?
If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going.

You can stop being a Boeing apologist. I gave the links/quotes. Extrapolate what you want to spin out of it.

Wonders if Rip has ever flown a Boeing (or an Airbus for that matter) or weather he just has a stake in Boeing success.

He's an office drone at Boeing.

[Ripsnort]

Wonders if Rip has ever flown a Boeing (or an Airbus for that matter) or weather he just has a stake in Boeing success.
They are both built with minimum cost in mind (both construction and operating costs).
They both have Government approved Minimum Equipment Lists that are as thick as the New York telephone directory. That's the Manual that permits dispatch with certain listed systems not functioning properly (or at all).
ALPA (the Airline Pilots Association) argues for very limited MEL's - the Manufacturer and the Airlines want really thick MEL`s.
Guess who wins!

Trust me...they`re all junk.

Actually, they're not. I have a brother in law who was a certified FAA airframe and power plant inspector for a number of years at American. He's been inside and outside of both. His famous quote is "Where Boeing uses rivets and glue, Airbus uses only glue" (Those of you in the assembly industry knows what glue means)
If you heard the stories he told me (from a neutral perspective, he's not vested in either company) you'd fly Boeing only too.

[Ripsnort]

You can stop being a Boeing apologist. I gave the links/quotes. Extrapolate what you want to spin out of it.He's an office drone at Boeing.

Today I am.

I was a Machinst, then Jig builder, then Flat pattern Tool Maker, then Tool Designer and add NC Programmer, Engineering Applications Analyst, and now a Senior Project Managers (office drone).

I've probably accomplished more in 30 years than you could have possibly imagined doing yourself in 2 life times.

[rpm]

So everything I said is correct. 

[Zimme83]

Actually, they're not. I have a brother in law who was a certified FAA airframe and power plant inspector for a number of years at American. He's been inside and outside of both. His famous quote is "Where Boeing uses rivets and glue, Airbus uses only glue" (Those of you in the assembly industry knows what glue means)
If you heard the stories he told me (from a neutral perspective, he's not vested in either company) you'd fly Boeing only too.

And still it was the 737 that fell out of the sky w/o anyone knowing why...

[Slamfire]

Better watch your tone rip, he's is a pretty big wheel down at the Piggly Wiggly. 

[Slamfire]

[Ripsnort]

Better watch your tone rip, he's is a pretty big wheel down at the Piggly Wiggly. 

LOL!

Where is that FW title page when you need it?

[SysError]

Does anyone know if the 1985 accident was about riveting issues within the tail?  It is not clear which accident they are talking about.

"Analysts have speculated about a possible link to a tail-strike accident the plane had in 2001, which caused another air disaster that killed more than 500 people in 1985, but Metrojet said the aircraft had been fully repaired and was in “good condition”.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/egypt-plane-crash-16-passengers-cancelled-flight-tickets-on-day-before-disaster-killed-224-people-a6717851.html

[Busher]

Does anyone know if the 1985 accident was about riveting issues within the tail?  It is not clear which accident they are talking about.

"Analysts have speculated about a possible link to a tail-strike accident the plane had in 2001, which caused another air disaster that killed more than 500 people in 1985, but Metrojet said the aircraft had been fully repaired and was in “good condition”.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/egypt-plane-crash-16-passengers-cancelled-flight-tickets-on-day-before-disaster-killed-224-people-a6717851.html

If you're referring to the JAL B747 where the tail separated, riveting had nothing to do with it. Some rivets had been used to install a doubler plate that was used to cover unapproved maintenance on damage caused by a landing tail strike.

[Busher]

Actually, they're not. I have a brother in law who was a certified FAA airframe and power plant inspector for a number of years at American. He's been inside and outside of both. His famous quote is "Where Boeing uses rivets and glue, Airbus uses only glue" (Those of you in the assembly industry knows what glue means)
If you heard the stories he told me (from a neutral perspective, he's not vested in either company) you'd fly Boeing only too.

I did.

I am not talking about the structures Rip. The pressure vessel, wings, tail etc are all over built. They have to be so the airplane has a reasonable service life.
It's the systems - avionics, hydraulics, electrics, flaps, flight controls that could be far better built on both manufacturer's airplanes. (forgive the choice of example but google "rudder hard over" accidents).

Respectfully
Rick

[Zimme83]

Does anyone know if the 1985 accident was about riveting issues within the tail?  It is not clear which accident they are talking about.

"Analysts have speculated about a possible link to a tail-strike accident the plane had in 2001, which caused another air disaster that killed more than 500 people in 1985, but Metrojet said the aircraft had been fully repaired and was in “good condition”.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/egypt-plane-crash-16-passengers-cancelled-flight-tickets-on-day-before-disaster-killed-224-people-a6717851.html

It has been a few accidents with in flight break up due to structural failure on aircrafts that has suffered a tail strike previously, JAL 123 and China Airlines 006 (both B747:s). In both cases it took several years from the tail strike to the structural failure. The fact that it happen during ascend to cruise altitude give some support to the theory. The other explanation is a bomb on board but little evidence point in that direction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Airlines_Flight_123
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Airlines_Flight_006

[rpm]

FWIW
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3301094/Terrifying-final-moments-doomed-Russian-jet-Plane-lurched-passengers-sucked-seats-external-impact-blew-jet-apart-flight-data-reveals.html

Russian media outlet LifeNews claims that more than 200 fragments of human remains from approximately 150 people have arrived in St Petersburg.
According to sources, there was a significant difference in the cause of death between passengers at the front and the rear of the aircraft.
Those at the front suffered 'blunt force trauma of the chest, abdomen and pelvis with multiple fractures of upper and lower limbs with tears to the internal organs. Deaths occurred due to acute blood loss, shock and open head injuries.'
Those at the rear of aircraft suffered 'explosive trauma with multiple burns over 90 per cent of their soft tissues'.
Passengers at the back had shrapnel injuries and were peppered with metal particles.

Egyptian authorities are interrogating the driver and staff of a catering company which supplied food to the aircraft on the morning of the aircraft.

The food trolleys are wheeled into the galley at the rear of the aircraft and stowed just in front of the rear pressure bulkhead.

Aviation sources have pointed to damage in the rear section of the plane which showed evidence of 'the fuselage skin peeling outwards possibly indicative of a force acting outwards from within' such as a bomb.

[NatCigg]

scary read.  flight tracker showed the plane flying upwards before going down.



uncontrolled climb as if tail got blown off with wings intact? 

 

[ghi]

FWIW
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3301094/Terrifying-final-moments-doomed-Russian-jet-Plane-lurched-passengers-sucked-seats-external-impact-blew-jet-apart-flight-data-reveals.html

About same story on RT , and this I find interesting, US satellite detected a heat flash in moment of explosion; ISIS video could be real;

 "An unnamed US official said on Tuesday that before the Russian passenger airliner crashed in Sinai, an American infrared satellite had detected a heat flash in the same vicinity, indicating that an explosion may have occurred onboard.

“The flash, which was observed by the satellite, that’s a piece of evidence, but against it’s inconclusive. It can also occur if there was a missile attack, a fire onboard or an explosion onboard,” retired flight commander, Sultan Mahmoud Hali, told RT.

https://www.rt.com/news/320655-a321-midair-explosion-version/


ISIS could move in Egypt some of this SA-5, were missing from Libya in 2011;


http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/missiles-missing-from-libyan-stockpile/article2436557.ece