Let's Talk Tracer Rounds

[Kazaa]

Hello everyone.

I've been looking over some WW2 gun camera footage for a project which I'm currently doing and I noticed something peculiar about their behaviour. Even though films from this era are low resolution and highly damaged, it's apparent to see the tracer rounds deform in a way similar to an arrow would when fired from a bow (see 9:10 the below video).

Now I've never had the opportunity to fire a gun let alone witness the behaviour of a tracer round first hand, but my first thought is that maybe the vibration from the camera is causing this illusion?

Any resident historians or avid shooters have input to share on this particular subject?

[Delirium]

As the material (phosphorus, magnesium) that causes the tracer round to be seen is burned off the weight of the round can change. This change in weight will also change the flight path of the round to some extent as well.

I don't see anything out of the ordinary, the flight path of the tracer rounds look to arc more than they should because the aircraft was pulling some G at the time of firing.

[Kazaa]

Ah.

That seems like a solid reason, Delirium!

Cheers, mate.

[10thmd]

It is also worth noting that the actual firing of the guns themselves causes Vibration which is what you are seeing. The camera is vibrating and causing the tracers to look that way. Look at footage taken from a ground fired M-2 .50cal machine gun you will notice that the tracers do not wobble like that.

[Kazaa]

@10thmd.

I have looked at a lot of footage filmed from the ground and the tracers do seem to be very much lazer like. My first thought was that the camera must be vibrating from the guns firing, which in turn caused the illusion of the tracers to bend in flight. As you said.

[WaffenVW]

In real life you don't see a streak of light, but a dot like a flare, unless it's a smoking tracer. The streak effect on film comes from motion blur caused by the camera's shutter speed. The longer the exposure time the more the tracer moves and 'draws' a streak of light across the film. Add to this the vibrations of a thousand horsepower piston engine and propeller and you get some funky effects.

[FLS]

Some of the vibration could be the wing in a high speed dive.

[10thmd]

I think it was Birds of Prey that did the tracers identical to the way old gun cams show them. I had to laugh when I saw tgat

[JunkyII]

In real life you don't see a streak of light, but a dot like a flare, unless it's a smoking tracer. The streak effect on film comes from motion blur caused by the camera's shutter speed. The longer the exposure time the more the tracer moves and 'draws' a streak of light across the film. Add to this the vibrations of a thousand horsepower piston engine and propeller and you get some funky effects.

This right here is the answer, Tracers look like a bottle rocket/Flare in person...the camera gives them the lazer look

[branch37]

They look like they do in the films in IL-2 I know for sure.  The only tracers I have ever fired were from a .223 in the river bottom at night, and others in this thread have nailed it.  You see just a glowing dot, not a streak.  The shaking you see in the films could also be from the recoil from the guns.  My 25-06 has a pretty decent recoil, I cant imagine (6) .50s all firing at the same time.  That thing had to shake like a dog passing a peach seed. 

[Kazaa]

Thank you for your input: Waffen, JunkyII, Branch.

I think every WW2 flight combat simulation I've played have been guilty of having their tracers show up as streaks in the sky. All this time I thought this was accurate. I need to get out more...

[JunkyII]

Thank you for your input: Waffen, JunkyII, Branch.

I think every WW2 flight combat simulation I've played have been guilty of having their tracers show up as streaks in the sky. All this time I thought this was accurate. I need to get out more...

I personally think the lazer like tracers they use in video games help the overall gameplay, honestly I think if they tried to make them more life like, it would be almost annoying trying to figure out how to walk them in.

[EskimoJoe]

A couple examples I can dig up.

https://youtu.be/eA5p18Piy8o

https://youtu.be/II7pzxJW9xU

They do and they don't look like lasers. In my experience, it really depends on the angle you see them at.

From behind the gun, to me it looks just like a second of light before it disappears, but watching others fire it's like small laser beams. I've  never seen a tracer wobble like some gun cam footage, even after a ricochet. I attribute the wobble effect to the vibration of the guns firing paired with older cameras.

My two cents.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

[Kazaa]

I personally think the lazer like tracers they use in video games help the overall gameplay, honestly I think if they tried to make them more life like, it would be almost annoying trying to figure out how to walk them in.

It could well be that developers are using film as research so they're just replicating what they're seeing.

You may well be right about longer trails being easier to walk onto the target. I'll have to test for myself.

[Kazaa]

I think it was Birds of Prey that did the tracers identical to the way old gun cams show them. I had to laugh when I saw tgat

It could be worse. At least they didn't add re-heat particles effect too planes which have jet engines... oh wait. 

I just added the camera effect illusion to my projectile model and I must say that it brought a smile to my face because it resembles my only reference material up to this point (film).