Rookie squad CO question

[hcrana]

Howdy all.  I got the mission objectives via email, no ride assignment (for the record, we're happy to fly whatever's needed).  I assume the country CiC will now send out emails with the orders... just wondering when that usually happens.

[MachNix]

CiCs usually have orders out via email by late Wednesdays.  Sometimes it is Thursday; and in some very rare occasions, it is on Friday.  The orders will have your ride assignments.  Try and coordinate with other squads assigned to your mission during the week.  Also try and practice with the equipment assigned.  Nothing chaps an escort's hid faster then to defend bombers to a target only to find the bomber crews don't know how to use the bombsight.

GL

[Alpo]

Nothing chaps an escort's hide faster then to defend bombers to a target only to find the bomber crews don't know how to use the bombsight.

GL

LOL     Gotta love those kinds Squad AARs for the escorts... "All escort pilots shot down but bombers successfully made it to and from target!... <checks AHEVENTS logs>  What do you mean they only got an ammo bunker and three guns???"

[nooby52]

Also, let it be known now <if it isn't already>: if a bomb group is being escorted by VF-17, and operation orders don't call for an NOE mission, but your commander or your group decides you are going to do an NOE, YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN!  We don't give up the high ground. Your best bet is to stay at your assigned altitude. We got your back.

[Nefarious]

Also, let it be known now <if it isn't already>: if a bomb group is being escorted by VF-17, and operation orders don't call for an NOE mission, but your commander or your group decides you are going to do an NOE, YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN!  We don't give up the high ground. Your best bet is to stay at your assigned altitude. We got your back.

This...

[Kanth]

I'm just going to say the obvious here.

As an escort, your mission isn't to keep the high ground, it isn't to live, it isn't to get kills.
It's to make sure the bombers live no matter if they WALK to the target. Even if you all die trying.
That's really all you are there to do. You are a team and they cannot LIVE without you.
If they die, they fail the mission and so then do you.

but you will do what you will.

[nooby52]

I'm just going to say the obvious here.

As an escort, your mission isn't to keep the high ground, it isn't to live, it isn't to get kills.
It's to make sure the bombers live no matter if they WALK to the target. Even if you all die trying.
That's really all you are there to do. You are a team and they cannot LIVE without you.
If they die, they fail the mission and so then do you.

but you will do what you will.

If orders are for them to go NOE, then we will do our utmost to intercept the enemy fighters and protect the BUFFs. Orders are orders, and we do our best to follow them. But, there have been a few times in the past, when the plan was to have the bombers go in at optimum altitude, but they elected to go NOE. When that happens, we intercept the fighters and they get knocked to the deck, just in time to spy the noe raid. Happened more than once. That's all I'm saying. VF-17 has drawn bomber duty plenty of times (and we still suck at it), so we know how important it is for the escort to not go chasing rabbits, and concentrate on protecting the bomber group, which we try to do, at all costs.

[hcrana]

MF have had the same experience from both sides.  I agree there's not much point in escorts flying NOE... just more helpless targets if you get bounced.  Might as well just put a cap on the target area and provide reception escort, since it seems the most vulnerable time for bombers is the few minutes immediately after a drop.  The formation goes all wonky, the bad guys are alerted, and there's usually a turn for home that slows everyone down right over the target area.

[pops57]

This!

I'm just going to say the obvious here.

As an escort, your mission isn't to keep the high ground, it isn't to live, it isn't to get kills.
It's to make sure the bombers live no matter if they WALK to the target. Even if you all die trying.
That's really all you are there to do. You are a team and they cannot LIVE without you.
If they die, they fail the mission and so then do you.

but you will do what you will.

[pops57]

Certainly NOT this!

Also, let it be known now <if it isn't already>: if a bomb group is being escorted by VF-17, and operation orders don't call for an NOE mission, but your commander or your group decides you are going to do an NOE, YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN!  We don't give up the high ground. Your best bet is to stay at your assigned altitude. We got your back.

[Nefarious]

NOE strikes can be well planned and executed. Most of the time, they are not.

Talk to your squads who are assigned the same objective to plan and coordinate, that's all I will add.

<S>

[Devil 505]

Truth.

[branch37]

NOE strikes are sometimes necessary, say in the instance of a torpedo run, but thats about it.  Yes they can be properly executed, but the timing required to do so usually results in the bombers being destroyed anyway. 

I'm just going to say the obvious here.

As an escort, your mission isn't to keep the high ground, it isn't to live, it isn't to get kills.
It's to make sure the bombers live no matter if they WALK to the target. Even if you all die trying.
That's really all you are there to do. You are a team and they cannot LIVE without you.
If they die, they fail the mission and so then do you.

but you will do what you will.

You are correct that an escorts job is to keep the bombers alive and nothing else.  It is also true that an escort job is a two way street, and should not be a babysitting job.  Escorts make a bombers job easier, but bombers should also do what they can to make the escorts job easier.  As you said, they cannot live without us.  By going NOE, it makes an escorts job extremely difficult.  9 times out of 10, escorting is nothing more than minimizing the time the enemy has to fire on the bombers.  Now we all know that the bombers are going to be shot at.  That is a given.  An escorts job is to minimize that shooting time.  This is done by either engaging the enemy formation before they can attack, or simply forcing them to turn away from a gun run or die.  As the battle drags out and both escorts and enemies have taken losses and lost position and speed, it is usually the escorts simply pushing the fighters below the bombers altitude and denying them a good firing solution.  By going NOE, the bombers have effectively narrowed the escorts choices to 1.  That is to find and engage the enemy formation before they find the bombers.  If the enemy find the bombers before the escorts can engage, then it becomes a race to see who can dive to the deck faster and not crash.  But what if there is another group of enemies?  then they get a free run on NOE bombers from 20-30K, and there is nothing anybody can do about it. 

I hope this clears what my squaddie was saying earlier.  We don't fly NOE simply because we are protecting our own score and looking for kills.   

[Drano]

The most important things in a successful NOE raid are timing and coordination. Do those things and it can be a total win! Go straight in on the deck and don't tell anyone where you are or adjust where you are relative your sweep/cap and chances are its gonna fail epically.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

[pops57]

True and good points! Certainly not conveyed by the words " NOE and you are on your own! We don't give up the high ground!" Just because it is harder and less likely to work does not mean you pass on the task! Right? I hope that was not what he was saying the squad chooses when faced with this situation!

NOE strikes are sometimes necessary, say in the instance of a torpedo run, but that's about it.  Yes they can be properly executed, but the timing required to do so usually results in the bombers being destroyed anyway. 

You are correct that an escorts job is to keep the bombers alive and nothing else.  It is also true that an escort job is a two way street, and should not be a babysitting job.  Escorts make a bombers job easier, but bombers should also do what they can to make the escorts job easier.  As you said, they cannot live without us.  By going NOE, it makes an escorts job extremely difficult.  9 times out of 10, escorting is nothing more than minimizing the time the enemy has to fire on the bombers.  Now we all know that the bombers are going to be shot at.  That is a given.  An escorts job is to minimize that shooting time.  This is done by either engaging the enemy formation before they can attack, or simply forcing them to turn away from a gun run or die.  As the battle drags out and both escorts and enemies have taken losses and lost position and speed, it is usually the escorts simply pushing the fighters below the bombers altitude and denying them a good firing solution.  By going NOE, the bombers have effectively narrowed the escorts choices to 1.  That is to find and engage the enemy formation before they find the bombers.  If the enemy find the bombers before the escorts can engage, then it becomes a race to see who can dive to the deck faster and not crash.  But what if there is another group of enemies?  then they get a free run on NOE bombers from 20-30K, and there is nothing anybody can do about it. 

I hope this clears what my squaddie was saying earlier.  We don't fly NOE simply because we are protecting our own score and looking for kills.