Author Topic: One second after  (Read 4419 times)

Offline DaveBB

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1356
One second after
« on: December 03, 2015, 05:03:19 PM »
Currently reading (rather listening I should say) to a book called "One second after".  Three nuclear warheads explode over the U.S. about 200 miles high.  Electro magnetic pulse destroys all the electronics in the U.S. with the exception of vintage tube type equipment.  It is a fascinating and realistic book.  Newt Gingrich wrote the forward and suggested that every American read it.

So with an EMP burst, all communications, transportation, manufacturing, and medical facilities shut down.  Nothing I have is hardened.  My family has some old tube type ham radios.  I keep my ham license, but I barely remember morse code.  It would definitely be a struggle to survive.  Clean water and medicine would be the most difficult things to obtain.  Something that the book doesn't touch on but makes ecological sense is eating fish and insects as the main food staple.  The lower on the food chain, the more abundant organisms are.

Has anyone else read this book?
Currently ignoring Vraciu as he is a whoopeeed retard.

Offline 100Coogn

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3925
Re: One second after
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2015, 05:13:13 PM »
But wouldn't the fish be contaminated by the water that we cannot drink?

Coogan
Quote
From Wiley: If you're hitting them after they drop, that's not defense, that is revenge.
Game Id's:
AHIII: Coogan
RDR2: Coogan_Bear
MSFS-2020: Coogan Bear

Offline NatCigg

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3336
Re: One second after
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2015, 05:17:28 PM »
Currently reading (rather listening I should say) to a book called "One second after".  Three nuclear warheads explode over the U.S. about 200 miles high.  Electro magnetic pulse destroys all the electronics in the U.S. with the exception of vintage tube type equipment.  It is a fascinating and realistic book.  Newt Gingrich wrote the forward and suggested that every American read it.

So with an EMP burst, all communications, transportation, manufacturing, and medical facilities shut down.  Nothing I have is hardened.  My family has some old tube type ham radios.  I keep my ham license, but I barely remember morse code.  It would definitely be a struggle to survive.  Clean water and medicine would be the most difficult things to obtain.  Something that the book doesn't touch on but makes ecological sense is eating fish and insects as the main food staple.  The lower on the food chain, the more abundant organisms are.

Has anyone else read this book?

not me but getting kicked off the technological pedestal is a scary thought and simply not far away.  i look at it like global warming, everybody will go through the same problem so not much to do or worry about.  ps it doesn't hurt to know where a artesian well and lots of like minded people with guns are at.  :old:  :bolt:

Offline DaveBB

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1356
Re: One second after
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2015, 05:18:23 PM »
But wouldn't the fish be contaminated by the water that we cannot drink?

Coogan

EMP doesn't create radioactive fallout. 
Currently ignoring Vraciu as he is a whoopeeed retard.

Offline WaffenVW

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 360
Re: One second after
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2015, 05:21:00 PM »
EMPs created by detonating nuclear warheads most certainly do release radioactive fallout.

Offline 100Coogn

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3925
Re: One second after
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2015, 05:21:47 PM »
EMP doesn't create radioactive fallout.

Actually been playing fallout, that's what made me think of dirty water.
I should start flying more...

Coogan
Quote
From Wiley: If you're hitting them after they drop, that's not defense, that is revenge.
Game Id's:
AHIII: Coogan
RDR2: Coogan_Bear
MSFS-2020: Coogan Bear

Offline Brooke

  • Aces High CM Staff
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15522
      • http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/
Re: One second after
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2015, 05:32:42 PM »
EMPs created by detonating nuclear warheads most certainly do release radioactive fallout.

He means by nukes used specifically for maximally creating EMP.  For an entire continent, that requires only a few nukes detonated above the atmosphere, from which the fallout would be insignificant.

Offline Nathan60

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4573
Re: One second after
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2015, 05:38:02 PM »
Here ya go
HamHawk
Wing III-- Pigs on The Wing
FSO--JG54
CHUGGA-CHUGGA, CHOO-CHOO
Pigs go wing deep

Offline Vulcan

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9886
Re: One second after
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2015, 06:02:30 PM »
Hollywood science.

Offline ghi

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2669
Re: One second after
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2015, 06:12:58 PM »
Without electricity all of this could meltdown ; Do they have back up power protected vs EMP  and keep all this reactors  cool ? :headscratch: 



I read this article yesterday in Dailymail, scary stuff;

The 'doomsday' weapon that could wipe out 90% of Americans: Eccentric tech millionaire and presidential candidate John McAfee says country is 'ill prepared' for electromagnetic attacks"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3260935/The-doomsday-weapon-wipe-90-Americans-Eccentric-tech-millionaire-presidential-candidate-John-McAfee-says-country-ill-prepared-electromagnetic-attacks.html
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 06:26:22 PM by ghi »

Offline Brooke

  • Aces High CM Staff
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15522
      • http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/
Re: One second after
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2015, 06:39:41 PM »
I read the book.

Here's why.  I had heard about EMP doom for a while and assumed it was a bunch of overreaction and fear mongering by people on the fringe.  Yeah, nukes give off EMP, but I assumed that a nuke's EMP would take out maybe a metropolitan-area worth of electrical stuff.  So, taking out the nation's electrical infrastructure would take, in effect, a full-on nuclear war.  I assumed this without any particular knowledge of it but just because if it took only 1-3 nukes on nothing more than 1950-era rockets, then it would be so easy to destroy the entire US and its population.  That would be like learning that it actually is so easy to steal all the gold in Fort Knox that a single 12 year old could do it in half an hour and no special tools.

However, I heard enough about it that I decided I would take a little time to look into it.  With a BS in nuclear engineering from the University of Michigan and an MS in applied physics from Caltech, I figured I'd be able to judge if it seems like hokum or not.

What I found out is that -- holy !@#$ -- it really would take only a few nukes to wipe out the US, as backed up by mathematical modeling and also actual historical measurements from nuclear tests and controlled testing.  One moderately sized nuke, detonated at very high altitude, can take out electrical equipment in a radius of about 500 miles (i.e., diameter of 1000 miles, i.e., a few of them cover the continental US).  What electrical equipment would be burned out?  Not just powerlines and transformers and data lines, but even smaller electrical equipment, and a lot of cars, trucks, trains, ships, and aircraft.

Now, think about what that means.  You in your house are not going to get electrical power, of course, but also not municipal running water, natural gas, or sewer treatment.  Without vehicles, you aren't going to get any food at the supermarket or pick up of your garbage.  Most of the people in the US don't store water, so in some areas, lots of people would start to die when the 50 gallons in their hot-water tanks runs out.  Most of the people in the US don't store food, so lots of people would start to die within a month or two because supermarkets have only about 3 days worth of food, and no more is coming if vehicles don't work.  This is to say nothing of people who might freeze to death if it were winter, what it would be like in cities and even suburbs without sewage disposal, and what things would get like in terms of "civil disturbance."

But wouldn't the US be able to get vehicles going and power back on in a month or two?  No.  The power grid has critical elements that we don't keep backups of and that, once destroyed, take months or a year to replace (even when all of our factories and electricity and distribution of building materials work).  That's not even to consider what a gargantuan job it would be to repair things we do have at least some spares of (like electrical wiring).

All that would be required is a few nukes launched from container ships way out to sea in the Atlantic, Pacific, and Gulf, which (among others) North Korea could accomplish and soon (thanks to our own policy) Iran will be able to accomplish.  A sophisticated country like China or Russia could probably accomplish it without leaving enough evidence for anyone to know which country did it.  In the not-too-distant future, some terrorist organizations might be able to do it.  It doesn't take fancy nukes on fancy rockets.  They just have to get up into the atmosphere and be accurate to within a US state or two.

The only bright spot compared to the scenario depicted in "One Second After" is that cars and trucks are somewhat resistant to EMP.  So, not all of them (even modern ones) would be wiped out within the 500-mile radius.  It's not clear how many would work, but even just some of them would allow some movement of food and water, perhaps saving a lot of people.

What are the odds of this happening?  Who knows?  It might be miniscule.  But, if it happened before the US wakes up and spends the trivial amount of money to have a little preparation for it (maybe it would cost as much as a single B-1 bomber to do this), a large portion of the US population would die.

Also, a giant solar flare (like the one that hit the earth in 1859 and the one that just barely missed the earth in 2012) would wipe out the earth's power grid, but at least vehicles should all mostly still work.  That is still a huge problem, of course, for the reasons stated above.

It was for these reasons that I decided (after not preparing ever before) to have a supply of water, a food, and some other items for my family.

For anyone interested in doing that as cheaply and easily as possible, my experience with that is here:

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,374259.0.html

For anyone who wants a good report on EMP and what it could do (at a solid technical level), it is here:

http://empcommission.org/

Offline icepac

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6911
Re: One second after
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2015, 06:44:40 PM »
GHI beat me to it.

There is no place to hide on the earth if even just a few nuke plants lose the ability to cool spent fuel and reactors whether in "cold shutdown" or having been recently scram'd.

Offline Brooke

  • Aces High CM Staff
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15522
      • http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/
Re: One second after
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2015, 06:49:07 PM »
That would indeed be bad, but it wouldn't kill everyone everywhere.  It wouldn't even kill everyone in the red circles.

I wouldn't suggest, because of that, it's just hopeless and not worth doing anything at all.

Offline USRanger

  • AvA Staff Member
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10325
      • BoP Home
Re: One second after
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2015, 07:06:09 PM »
Ted Koppel recently came out with a book called "Lights Out: A Cyberattack, a Nation Unprepared, Surviving the Aftermath".  It talks about how easily the power grid can be destroyed and what will happen to the U.S. if it were to happen.

A scary fact learned from the book: The U.S. only has three main power grids.  The Eastern half, the Western half & Texas (has its own).  If one of these were to go down, 1/2 of the country is without power for 1-2 years, causing an estimated 90% human die-off in the first year.  Scary stuff.  I can't believe we haven't built back ups for these critical systems, but we haven't. :frown:
Axis vs Allies Staff Member
☩ JG11 Sonderstaffel ☩
Flying 'Black[Death] 10' ☩JG11☩

Only the Proud, Only the Strong Ne Desit Virtus

Offline Brooke

  • Aces High CM Staff
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15522
      • http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/
Re: One second after
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2015, 07:12:33 PM »
If one of these were to go down, 1/2 of the country is without power for 1-2 years, causing an estimated 90% human die-off in the first year.  Scary stuff.  I can't believe we haven't built back ups for these critical systems, but we haven't. :frown:

Amen to that.

Let's hope the US decides asap to spend a trivial amount of money to protect against such things.