Don't worry guys, The 30mm isn't buggy.

[49Dallas]

Please watch in 1080p and full screen. Sorry for the loud volume I don't know how to turn it down in the youtube editor.

Sorry for the poor editing, I've really never made a video before and the film viewer is terrible.

4-5 hits at 0:37

This film is full of [CRAP] Hits on wings, fuselages.

I understand fuselages will take a lot of hits, But eventually they must give. Wings should take what? Two hits? Multiple clips of wings taking multiple hits at the root.

[49Dallas]

Skuzzy,

I'm sorry for posting in the wrong forum, I thought it was the appropriate one. Thank you for moving it.

[Skuzzy]

Glad you agree.  Although it should be mentioned, a Youtube video is not proof of anything good or bad.

To date, no one has submitted a video which indicates there is a problem with the 30mm round.  So far it has all been a perceptual issue.  I.e. "My round hit the plane!  It should have disintegrated it!"

[Hetzer7]

There is definitely nothing wrong with ghi's 30mm's, i can attest to that.

[49Dallas]

Glad you agree.  Although it should be mentioned, a Youtube video is not proof of anything good or bad.

To date, no one has submitted a video which indicates there is a problem with the 30mm round.  So far it has all been a perceptual issue.  I.e. "My round hit the plane!  It should have disintegrated it!"

Skuzzy,

I'm sorry for posting in the wrong forum, I thought it was the appropriate one. Thank you for moving it.

I think it's fine. I don't have problems with fighters but bombers are iffy. I killed a 38 in that sortie with no problem. He did take 3-4 30mm before going poof though. I sent you an email with the film attached to it if you want to review it. I'd like to ask you how much "damage" does a 30mm mk 108 round do and how much does it take to blow the wing off a lancaster? How many rounds can a Lancaster fuselage take?

[Wiley]

I think it's fine. I don't have problems with fighters but bombers are iffy. I killed a 38 in that sortie with no problem. He did take 3-4 30mm before going poof though. I sent you an email with the film attached to it if you want to review it. I'd like to ask you how much "damage" does a 30mm mk 108 round do and how much does it take to blow the wing off a lancaster? How many rounds can a Lancaster fuselage take?

At 0:45, he zippers the fuselage from tip to tail.  I'm guessing it was hits over multiple parts of the plane, none of which took 100% of whatever they needed to break the parts.

I am not a WWII munitions expert, but that's the kind of thing that makes it look fishy to a lot of people.  It seems to me a lot of people expect 1x30mm to kill whatever part it hits, which I don't think is necessarily right, but 30mm really seems to behave strangely at times on large targets.

Dallas- Damage is variable based on closing speeds and likely other factors I don't know about.  It's not as simple as "a wingroot has 200hp, a 30mm does 180 damage" or whatever you're looking for.

Wiley.

[49Dallas]

At 0:45, he zippers the fuselage from tip to tail.  I'm guessing it was hits over multiple parts of the plane, none of which took 100% of whatever they needed to break the parts.

I am not a WWII munitions expert, but that's the kind of thing that makes it look fishy to a lot of people.  It seems to me a lot of people expect 1x30mm to kill whatever part it hits, which I don't think is necessarily right, but 30mm really seems to behave strangely at times on large targets.

Dallas- Damage is variable based on closing speeds and likely other factors I don't know about.  It's not as simple as "a wingroot has 200hp, a 30mm does 180 damage" or whatever you're looking for.

Wiley.

You're right. But I feel like 2-3 30mm should take a wing especially since I hit the root, This happened multiple times. I absolutely RAKED the fuselage with probably 6 rounds and it didn't die. It's just crazy to me. I sent the film to Skuzzy and maybe he would be so kind to post the logs?



I just watched the film at .14x and then at .25x that in youtube so basically frame by frame and counted 4 hits at 0:45-0:49.


1:40 L wing 2 hits Fuse 1 hit

2:10 Looks like the fuse takes 3 hits, 2 near the L wing and the L wing falls off.

Tallied up that's 9 30mm hits to the fuseulage and 2 hits to the left wing.






Drone 1(left side)

0:06 took 2 Lwing hits and a fuse hit


2:50 fuse hit and 2 Lwing hits

Ack blows up drone 2

Drone 3(Right side)

4:10 MG fire

Takes a tater or two and eventually goes down probably due to ack taking off it's wing. He probably would've got the ditch if I didn't finish him off.

[Skuzzy]

I'll post the details once I get the film through the debugger.

However, I can pretty much tell you strafing a ginormous bomber with any round is, probably, not going to kill it.  A focused burst of rounds, at one point, *could* do far more damage.

[Wiley]

Don't know.  Splash damage with it seems low to me sometimes, and I get the impression there are still multiple things to hit at the wingroot.  Might be the two rounds connected directly with different parts and that's why nothing fell off.  Wings and flaps are counted as different parts for example.  One of my pet peeves is I quite often hit F4Us on the flaps with 30mm and they only lose the flap even though I was firing from near six on the plane and hit near where it connects to the wing.  Maybe the math is there that it would survive, I can't say.  It seems to me the Lancs might have similar things that appear counterintuitive.

Lot of unknowns, and a case can be made for that being okay.  I've never seen stats for how many 30mms to a wingroot or the fuselage a Lanc can take and still fly.  That info seems a bit difficult to find.

As Skuzzy says above, my workaround is to concentrate fire on one spot with the 30mm as with all other gun packages, then I generally don't need to worry about it.

Wiley.

[49Dallas]

Don't know.  Splash damage with it seems low to me sometimes, and I get the impression there are still multiple things to hit at the wingroot.  Might be the two rounds connected directly with different parts and that's why nothing fell off.  Wings and flaps are counted as different parts for example.  One of my pet peeves is I quite often hit F4Us on the flaps with 30mm and they only lose the flap even though I was firing from near six on the plane and hit near where it connects to the wing.  Maybe the math is there that it would survive, I can't say.  It seems to me the Lancs might have similar things that appear counterintuitive.

Lot of unknowns, and a case can be made for that being okay.  I've never seen stats for how many 30mms to a wingroot or the fuselage a Lanc can take and still fly.  That info seems a bit difficult to find.

As Skuzzy says above, my workaround is to concentrate fire on one spot with the 30mm as with all other gun packages, then I generally don't need to worry about it.

Wiley.

I'll post the details once I get the film through the debugger.

However, I can pretty much tell you strafing a ginormous bomber with any round is, probably, not going to kill it.  A focused burst of rounds, at one point, *could* do far more damage.

I can't wait to see the logs. I wonder what the 30mm base damage is and the strength of the lancaster's wing is. I'd like to see if the hitsprites match up to where the plane was actually hit too.

As far as concentrating in one spot, There are multiple passes where I hit the wing root, At the start of the film I get 2 planes with 2 hits each on the wing root with 30mm rounds. If that isn't concentrated fire I don't know what is. The lead plane took NINE count NINE 30mm hits to the fuselage.

[The Fugitive]

I believe the view you get in game and on the film is an aproxomation of what really happened.  The packets sent have the actual hits and damage is accessed accordingly.  At least that is what I seem to remember reading here.

[Wiley]

I believe the view you get in game and on the film is an aproxomation of what really happened.  The packets sent have the actual hits and damage is accessed accordingly.  At least that is what I seem to remember reading here.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,287104.msg3646479/topicseen.html#msg3646479
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,179895.msg2075075/topicseen.html#msg2075075

Heh, the one thread's from 2006.

Dallas-  I reiterate, the wingroot is likely comprised of multiple "parts", and 1 30mm may not destroy any of them.

Wiley.

[The Fugitive]

I remember those, but that isn't what I'm talking about. From your view you see the hit sprite hit the wing root. It may "look" like it hit 6 inches back 2 inches off the body and the next one hit right next to it, but only by looking at the hit logs will you know were it hit other than in that general area.


I think that may be where some have such a hard time with this. To them it looks like they scored 3, 30mm hits to the wing root when in reality only one is scored as a wing root hit, one of the other two traveled through the wing and took out the landing gear and and the third actually hit the body/fuselage.

[49Dallas]

I remember those, but that isn't what I'm talking about. From your view you see the hit sprite hit the wing root. It may "look" like it hit 6 inches back 2 inches off the body and the next one hit right next to it, but only by looking at the hit logs will you know were it hit other than in that general area.


I think that may be where some have such a hard time with this. To them it looks like they scored 3, 30mm hits to the wing root when in reality only one is scored as a wing root hit, one of the other two traveled through the wing and took out the landing gear and and the third actually hit the body/fuselage.

I can't wait to see the logs. I wonder what the 30mm base damage is and the strength of the lancaster's wing is. I'd like to see if the hitsprites match up to where the plane was actually hit too.

I completely understand what you're saying. But why wouldn't the sprite be exactly where you hit, Especially if you look at film afterwards?

[Wiley]

I remember those, but that isn't what I'm talking about. From your view you see the hit sprite hit the wing root. It may "look" like it hit 6 inches back 2 inches off the body and the next one hit right next to it, but only by looking at the hit logs will you know were it hit other than in that general area.


I think that may be where some have such a hard time with this. To them it looks like they scored 3, 30mm hits to the wing root when in reality only one is scored as a wing root hit, one of the other two traveled through the wing and took out the landing gear and and the third actually hit the body/fuselage.

Ahh... ok.  That still seems counterintuitive as all get out to me.  It would seem to me to be so much easier to show the sprite where it actually hits rather than somewhere else.

I'm also having trouble imagining a scenario where a round hitting the gear from the top wouldn't be in a position to damage the wing around it significantly.  I'm not disputing that's how it may work in the game, just don't like it if that's so.

Wiley.