Support for 3D Monitors, Glasses, and Goggles (Oculus Rift, Vive, etc)

[GuyNoir]

I've been messing around with the beta, and I think it looks great.  It's a real step up from Aces High 2, and you guys are doing great work.

Unfortunately, just like in AH2, the game comes close to giving full support for 3D tech, but it's still not quite there.  I think that with 3D goggles like the Oculus Rift and the Vive coming out soon, 3D support is more important than ever.

The beta doesn't have much wrong with in that regard, but the problems really mess up the whole experience. 

The main problem in AH2 and the beta is that the virtual gunsight is not out on the horizon; it's up against your face.  In 2D, it looks like it's out there, but it's not.  So, in 3D, when you're trying to aim at something way out in front of your plane, you get two copies of the gunsight on either side of your nose, and it's impossible to aim (just like if you held your finger up in front of your face and got two see through copies on either side of where you're looking).  If you could somehow push the 2D plane of the gunsight out to the horizon, it seems like it'd fix the whole problem.

The other big problem I saw in AH2 (but not in the beta since I haven't actually seen another plane yet) is that the badguy (plane, tank, whatever) is way out in the distance, but his icon is again right up against your face.  Also, it's butted right up against the enemy plane so it's hard to focus on either the plane or the icon.

Also, In the beta, when you pull up the clipboard, it sits correctly physically in front of you, but the mouse pointer is sitting way behind it, so it's really hard to click on anything on the clipboard since you have two copies of the pointer.  Strangely, when you modify your keyboard control mapping, the interface and the mouse sit on the same plane correctly. 


Pretty much all of the physical stuff in the game looks amazing using my 3D glasses; it's just some of the 2D stuff like the gunsights and the pointer that really mess it all up. 

Like I said, though, the new beta is looking fantastic!  Keep up the good work!

[hitech]

What program are using to drive the oculus? I happened to be working with it this afternoon at home.

HiTech

[GuyNoir]

Sorry, I don't have the Oculus.  I have a pair of nVidia 3D Vision 2 glasses with a BenQ 3D-ready 120Hz monitor.  It seems like the effect would be the same, though I can't say for sure.

That's great to hear that you've got an Oculus, though!  Sounds fun. 

[GuyNoir]

Here's a mockup I made in Photoshop of how the gunsight looks in 3D.  It's not quite the same, since you can focus on the sight with your eyes making everything else out of focus, OR you can focus way out on the enemy plane, and your gunsight is out of focus.  It makes it pretty hard to shoot, though...

[Wraith_TMS]

What program are using to drive the oculus? I happened to be working with it this afternoon at home.

HiTech

Sorry for butting into this conversation--I don't own a Rift but I follow VR closely--anyway, in this VR-related thread from the Hardware & Software forum, Vulcan mentions that he used Opentrack to emulate TrackIR type head-tracking with his Rift DK version and AH.  I've read elsewhere that others have used VorpX to do the same thing.  Vulcan would be the best source for how he tweaked those Opentrack settings, of course:

Yes, you use OpenTrack to emulate trackir inputs - and it is scalable. I have mine running at 120:180 (ie 120 degrees gives a 180 degree input).

I can play AH for hours on end, no VR sickness. So the experience will vary from person to person. That said I have great sealegs (when I was young I used to kayak in storms for fun), never get sick on violent flights (usually fall asleep), and I've been playing AH in VR for around 10 or so years. If you're a pansy who cannot handle a childrens rollecoaster VR is not for you 

One of the more interesting things you come (as mentioned before) is the size of the cockpits. Even in fighters you notice the cramped cockpits (spitfire) versus ones where you can really move your head around (typhoon).

This is AH on the Rift DK1, I had issues with the tracking as NZ has some funky magnetic stuff going on, so I augmented the tracking with a Hydra. The tracking in the DK2 is way better (uses motion/magnetics/optical).

HT, the Vive and the Rift consumer versions are fully 6-DOF headtracking-capable now (using embedded LED's), and their developer SDK's have been optimized to allow developers to program their games for this.  Here is OculusVR's documentation page, with info for developers: https://developer.oculus.com/documentation/.  Maybe that will serve as more grist for the mill.

FWIW,

[Vulcan]

I use VorpX (for the image modification) and Opentrack for the headtracking.

VorpX does NOT currently support 3D in AH or the AH Beta (you get the same image for each eye).

HT stop teasing me. I am gonna be in Dallas Feb 22nd 

[fracca]

Tridef for 3d injection and opentrack. If you are not using it for 3d, why use Vorpx at all? Just use opentrack and punt straight to the rift, thats what I was doing for a while.

[Vulcan]

Tridef for 3d injection and opentrack. If you are not using it for 3d, why use Vorpx at all? Just use opentrack and punt straight to the rift, thats what I was doing for a while.

That does not make sense. Tridef does not support the DK2. The Rift requires modification of the image (warping and dual images), you cannot just "punt it straight to the rift".

[fracca]

Tridef works for dk2 just fine, at least it did 6 months ago. I should really hope so as well considering it is made by one of the Oculus staffers. And if you go a bit deeper into your oculus knowledge you will remember the rift has a 2d mode, which indeed means you can punt anything you display on a monitor  straight to the rift. Either that or I have been dreaming playing AH with my oculus.

[fracca]

And so I'm not rude, just in case you genuinely didnt know, 768x1024 I believe is 2d mode, I'd have to get mine out to check, but its thereabouts. And the rift will do for you automatically what you are using vorpx for.

[Vulcan]

Tridef is made by... Tridef. AFAIK they have not been acquired by Oculus. They ceased updates to the Rift support in July 2014: https://www.tridef.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=3907  . Some tridef users have managed hacks to get tridef to recognise the DK2, but there have been challenges with resolution and correct warping.

The native Rift resolution is 1920x1080. If you enable the Rift as a screen (has to be pre-0.8 SDK) then it usually appears as a 1080x1920 landscape screen.

When a game runs on the Oculus it must render two images on that 1920x1080 screen (ie 960 x 1080 each). If you do not split the images you will get a single image split in half across each eye that will give you a headache.

The rendered images must be warped for the Oculus lenses. If you do not warp the images you will get some strange fisheye effective.

As of SDK 8 on the Rift there is no longer a separate Rift monitor.

Games must support the Rift natively and do this themselves (games such as Elite Dangerous or DCS) - typically these use "Direct to Rift Mode". The game itself will render two images in either 2D or 3D.

If a game does not support the Rift natively then 3rd party drivers such as VorpX or Virieo can be used. Note not all games work with these drivers so you can get mixed results.

I'm sorry but I completely disagree with what you posted.

[GrandpaChaps]

Sorry for butting into this conversation--I don't own a Rift but I follow VR closely--anyway, in this VR-related thread from the Hardware & Software forum, Vulcan mentions that he used Opentrack to emulate TrackIR type head-tracking with his Rift DK version and AH.  I've read elsewhere that others have used VorpX to do the same thing.  Vulcan would be the best source for how he tweaked those Opentrack settings, of course:

HT, the Vive and the Rift consumer versions are fully 6-DOF headtracking-capable now (using embedded LED's), and their developer SDK's have been optimized to allow developers to program their games for this.  Here is OculusVR's documentation page, with info for developers: https://developer.oculus.com/documentation/.  Maybe that will serve as more grist for the mill.

FWIW,

From what I understand, (please be kind and explain the basics, BASICS) O.R. won't work because of the type of graphics AH uses.  Correct or no?  At least that's what I understand based on the last version of the game.

[fracca]

I'm sorry but I completely disagree with what you posted.

Not sure why you're sorry, (or even if what you wrote was actually intended for me considering it's two steps down from what we were talking about).

As far as tridef is concerned, I believe it is, (or was) created and by Cybereality, who is the board moderator over at oculus, so its nothing to do with oculus buying out tridef or anything like that. I dont think tridef is as big an operation as you seem to think. Whither or not they still support dk2 as I said I havent looked for 6 months, so I'm not disputing that. However I do have some buddies who still use tridef on dk2 for arma and they haven't mentioned any problems. (It may be a case of rolling back drivers). Regardless, I shall admit I'm not up to date with tridef, but it DID work for sure, so just find older versions.

All the info you posted about the rift is kinda true, but you did omit to mention the 768x1024 mode (which incidentally was a hidden easter egg according to cybereality that i thought everyone knew about), which changes the way the picture is presented within the rift. Which is the only thing I actually said, and is the thing you apparently disagree with. It was made specifically so you can see your desktop inside the rift without all those warping and headache inducing split image problems you mentioned. You could save yourself a lot of time just by enabling it yourself to see what I'm talking about.

And yes the newest rift drivers have disabled extending to the rift, however considering more than half the applications haven't been upgraded to use the new drivers, and most of the people who actually have a rift right now are developers anyway, i believe everyone is just using the runtime switcher. (Which again is over at oculus forums).

So I guess I accept your apology?

[Vulcan]

Nah, I disagree with you. But I'm not going to waste HTCs bandwidth arguing the point.

[fracca]

Just put the rift to that resolution and check it for yourself dude... It's not like it isn't a 5 minute verification, and it isn't really open to philosophy.


EDIT:And at first I was really happy to see at least one more VR pilot in AH but damn you made me sad.