review wep times, toughness values

[Vraciu]

If you read my post it was in response to Vraciu's claim that there was no time limit on the length for WEP in the Mustang.

Because there wasn't. 

Guys routinely ran it in WEP for periods beyond five minutes without failure.

You can run the Mustang's Merlin in WEP indefinitely--until it blows or runs out of fuel.

[Vraciu]

The WEP stuff kind of seems to me a gameplay concession.  Bustr's previous posts about the lengths of time Merlins were shown to run on WEP settings kind of make the idea of the engine being damaged by WEP pretty silly.

It would radically change the game if you put them all to behave realistically, with the additives running out and that's it, while the ones that were merely at a higher setting would essentially run forever in game terms.

Wiley.

My point precisely.

[Vraciu]

The Mustang did have a WEP limit and it was 5 minutes.

In the section of the P-51 pilot manual, for the WEP operation steps, #4 reads, "Use War Emergency Rating for 5 minutes maximum."

http://s91.photobucket.com/user/Major_Sharpe/media/NorthAmericanP-51D-5PilotsInstructionsb27_zps2a5302ef.jpg.html

That's a LIMITATION not a limit.

My jet has a thrust limitation of 117% for five minutes.   In an emergency that goes out the window.   I will run it as long as necessary to survive.    If it invalidates the warranty so be it. 

[Ack-Ack]

That's a LIMITATION not a limit.

My jet has a thrust limitation of 117% for five minutes.   In an emergency that goes out the window.   I will run it as long as necessary to survive.    If it invalidates the warranty so be it.

You claimed there was no limit, while clearly in the Mustang's flight manual it states the limit was 5 minutes maximum on WEP.  Yes, in some cases pilots got away with running WEP beyond its clearly stated maximum in the flight manual still doesn't take away the fact there was a limit on how long WEP could be used on the Mustang.

[Vraciu]

You claimed there was no limit, while clearly in the Mustang's flight manual it states the limit was 5 minutes maximum on WEP.  Yes, in some cases pilots got away with running WEP beyond its clearly stated maximum in the flight manual still doesn't take away the fact there was a limit on how long WEP could be used on the Mustang.

A LIMITATION is not the same thing as a LIMIT.

Five minutes is a LIMITATION.   It is not a LIMIT.

You are wrong.   Move along.

Cheers.

[FLOOB]

A LIMITATION is not the same thing as a LIMIT.

FAIL!

Ack-Ack is totally right!

[artik]

Ironically, in AH the level bombers hit more accurately than the dive bombers.

It is actually very good point.

In AH we fly in standard atmosphere in windless condition below 14K in absolutely clear weather with most highly skilled and trained (automatic) bombardier that has most accurate maps around.

In such a case it isn't wonder that Level bomber is that accurate - also if you read about trials and testing of Norden in "lab" conditions it was indeed very accurate - which wasn't reflected in real world operations.

The entire setup of AH gives much better chances to level bombers due to windless conditions.

[Zimme83]

Yep, we know all the variables needed for bombing accurate, the math isnt that hard it just about having the right inputs. IRL they didnt knew their exact altitude over target, they had to estimate their ground speed and wind drift. And they were also most of the time under fire.
Plus they did formation drops, only the leader aimed and the rest just dropped when he did, hence the bad accuracy.

As for WEP, most planes could run on WEP for longer than the recommended limit but the system we have is reasonable, otherwise we could have run on WEP the entire sortie since we get a new plane the next sortie anyway. But British Merlins should have same ratio as their American counterparts.

[PJ_Godzilla]

If you read my post it was in response to Vraciu's claim that there was no time limit on the length for WEP in the Mustang.

Indeed, Ack... but I wasn't that concerned about that.

I'm more concerned about my question and the premise to it.

First, Zimme has stated a discrepancy in the wep on/wep off ratio for Spit and Mustang. I'm not about to verify it empirically but I am disinclined to accept his assertion as fact yet, especially since he mistakenly called it recharge time.

Second, I can see a couple of potential reasons why one engine as installed might be more sensitive to the increased heat loading than another - and can think of at least one more, so I'm wondering if there's any diff in the cooling pack capacities and efficiencies b/w the two.

It's just arcana, that second point, but it'd be interesting to know. Certainly, the rad housing and placement is different b/w the two, given the location and redesign required on the Mustang after the change from Allison to Merlin.

[Zimme83]

potejto potato. Nothing is recharged im well aware of that, say cooling time if you prefer.

[PJ_Godzilla]

Okay, Zimme... accepted. But more importantly, on what are you basing your statement of the time difference? Is it stated somewhere in the online lit or did you verify it empirically?

[Vraciu]

FAIL!

Ack-Ack is totally right!

No, he is not. 

There is nothing that prevents one from running a Merlin indefinitely in WEP until it blows.   It is a limitation.   If burning up the engine will save your hide then you aren't gonna' worry about five minutes.   You will exceed it to get home. 

Max altitude is a limit.   A governor for RPM is a limit.   WEP use for five minutes is a limitation.

[Saxman]

Honestly, it's a lot of semantics.

[Vraciu]

Honestly, it's a lot of semantics.

To a point. 

[Zimme83]

Okay, Zimme... accepted. But more importantly, on what are you basing your statement of the time difference? Is it stated somewhere in the online lit or did you verify it empirically?

I have found nothing to support that RAF had different limitations on their Merlins. I found it odd that Both Hurricane, Spitfires, Lancasters and Mosquitoes all had a 1:3 WEP-ratio while all US-merlins had a 1:2 ratio. But all British fighters regardless of engine has the 1:3 ratio in the game for no apparent reason.