Author Topic: Post your RL WWII Aircraft!  (Read 64003 times)

Offline oakranger

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Re: Post your RL WWII Aircraft!
« Reply #300 on: January 05, 2017, 09:14:30 PM »
Difference between P-51-D and P-51-H.


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Re: Post your RL WWII Aircraft!
« Reply #301 on: January 05, 2017, 10:19:15 PM »
P-51H is one ugly airplane.
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Offline colmbo

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Re: Post your RL WWII Aircraft!
« Reply #302 on: January 05, 2017, 11:11:36 PM »
Funny how changing a couple of little dimensions (such as the gear doors) throws everything off.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2017, 11:15:19 PM by colmbo »
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Offline oakranger

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Re: Post your RL WWII Aircraft!
« Reply #303 on: January 06, 2017, 10:49:18 PM »
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Offline oakranger

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Re: Post your RL WWII Aircraft!
« Reply #304 on: January 07, 2017, 12:38:24 PM »



A Douglas Havoc NF.II Turbinlite (Serial No. Z2184) at RAF Boscombe Down. In this photograph we can see clearly the flame suppressor on the port exhaust stack as well as the double pair of arrowhead antenna arrays for the RDF equipment.












Two Turbinlite testing out on another Boston.   
[image]http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp20/skbluestem/IMG_0053_zpseh127mmu.jpg[/img]

Moss prototype.

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Offline Oldman731

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Re: Post your RL WWII Aircraft!
« Reply #305 on: January 07, 2017, 10:44:22 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)


Thanks Oakranger.  This was one thing I'd never heard of.  What a rush to be the aerial flashlight.

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Offline oakranger

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Re: Post your RL WWII Aircraft!
« Reply #306 on: January 08, 2017, 01:19:57 AM »
Interesting read on it.


By Dave O'Malley     

Inside the glassed-in nose of a Heinkel He 111 bomber, a pilot and his navigator/bombardier sat in silence, a silence that only they recognized beneath the blasting thunder of their ship’s two Jumo V-12 engines. Tonight was a good night to be out over England in the summer of 1942—dark and moonless. Tonight’s target was the city of Coventry—according to Tomas his navigator, just 130 miles to the west. Tomas spoke quietly on my the intercom, “We are just north of Ipswich now, still another 40 minutes to go.” He was glad Tomas knew where they were. The pilot had been to Coventry a year ago, and he hoped this would be the last time. Outside the cockpit, all was total darkness, no light above or below. He no longer could see the vague silhouettes of the others, or even their exhaust flares. Just blackness. The night was a dark friend. So far so good.
Ten seconds later, the comforting cover of night was turned into the blinding light of day. In a single moment, the cockpit had become a searing blue-white room of unholy light crossed by shifting shadows. Within the light, the engines seemed to shriek like banshees. The pilot’s first reaction was incredulity—there was no searchlight that he had seen below, yet somehow it had found him the instant it was turned on. How was it possible? A millisecond later, he reefed the Heinkel into a diving left turn, with Tomas, who had stood up to move down to the bomb aiming position, slamming onto the cockpit glass on the starboard side. The beam of light seemed to follow him down and was so broad, he could not get out of its grasp. He could hear his gunners, Gerhard on top and Arno in the ventral turret hammering away at something with their MG 81s. The cockpit smelled of cordite and an odd whiff of something electrical. While the pilot corkscrewed, tracer rounds started washing by like liquid blobs of light and then rounds started thumping and ripping into his aircraft.
This fanciful scenario was what inventor Sydney Cotton, Air Commodore William Helmore (the godfather of Photo Reconnaissance) and the Royal Air Force had imagined when they invented, patented, built and deployed the 2,700 million candela Helmore Turbinlite aboard a modified Douglas A-20 Havoc (Boston) night fighter. As it turned out, the system was not successful and scenarios such as this never really happened. The German pilot and his crew would continue on to the city of Coventry that August night and, along with others, drop their bombs. It was the last raid on Coventry. Five months later, the lights went out on the Turbinlite concept forever.
By late 1940 and early 1941, the concept of the night fighter was truly coming into its own. Specially dedicated squadrons were forming with specialized tactics, equipment and training. New forms of portable radars were slowly coming into use, but mostly they were only able to get a tracking night stalker to within the general area of an operating enemy bomber. Air Commodore William Helmore, as special scientific advisor to the Chief of the Air Staff, dedicated much of his time on the subject of night fighters and their equipment and, along with Cotton, came up with a concept they called ATI—Air Target Illumination. The idea was to put a searchlight in the nose of an aircraft, and using both ground radar and new RDF (Radio Direction Finding) radar in the aircraft, guide the pilot to within striking distance of the enemy at night. At this point the pilot would switch on his searchlight, illuminate the bomber and accompanying fighters would shoot it down.
The concept of illuminating enemy aircraft at night, for satellite fighters to take out, seemed simple enough, and this alone most likely drove inventors and the RAF to push forward with the concept even as better radars were being developed. The idea was to attach the world’s most powerful searchlight to the nose of a powerful twin-engine night fighter. The light itself was designed for this specific purpose under the patents and direction of Helmore and Cotton and was far more powerful than any military light of the day. To understand exactly how powerful it was, a comparison should be made. The service searchlights in use by the Army and Navy up to this point consumed 150 amps of current. The Helmore Turbinlite drew 1,400 amps. Specially designed 12-volt batteries were created which could discharge in 120 seconds. The 48-battery array was carried in the fuselage and weighed so much (nearly 2,000 lbs) that the Turbinlite aircraft could carry no offensive or defensive armament. The light burned through its carbon rods at a prodigious rate, these being fed mechanically as they were consumed by the arcing electricity from the batteries, generating considerable heat and toxic gas fumes. The heat and gas output problem was dealt with by a chin intake which drove cooling air into the nose section and forced it out through a hydraulically-actuated vent door on the starboard side. The light itself had an elliptical reflector, which projected a horizontal “sausage-shaped” beam of light with a 30 degree divergence. This gave a horizontal light coverage of 950 yards wide at one mile ahead of the aircraft. This powerful and wide beam would light up any bomber ahead for a mile, allowing the accompanying Hurricanes (sometimes Bolton Paul Defiants early on) to spot and attack the enemy aircraft. The two parasite fighters in the team kept station on the Turbinlite Havoc throughout the chase using formation lighting on the Havoc’s wings. This lighting was in the form of a white strip along the trailing edge of the main plane on both sides, illuminated by an angled lamp. Using small elevator inputs, the Havoc pilot was to keep the beam on the enemy as the Hurricanes made their attack.
Of course, operating in relatively close formation in the dark with barely visible lighting required radio work to fully communicate in an environment where hand signals did not work. This meant that instructions and communications via radio could be detected by the enemy. A system of code words and expressions were used to communicate command and intentions—all kept to the bare minimum. The pilot of the Turbinlite Havoc, unable to see the Hurricanes on his wings would ask “ARE YOU SNUGGLING?” (Are you in formation?) If he did see the Hurricanes and wanted them to close formation, he would order this with the single word “CONTRACT” and “EXPAND” if he wished the formation to open up. When the Havoc was within 5,000 feet of the target, the pilot would declare this with the single word “WARM.. If he wanted to tell the Hurricane pilots that he was dropping back he would say “COOLER.” At 3,000 feet back, he would declare “HOT,” to which the Hurricanes were obligated to confirm receipt of the message by saying “UNDERSTAND HOT.” Ten seconds before illumination, the Havoc pilot would say “BOILING.”
The Hurricane pilot had a code as well to communicate with the Havoc in the lead. Approaching the Havoc, and in need of the formation lights, he would say “SHOW UP” and if he felt that station keeping lights were too bright, he would say “CLOSE WINDOWS”. Other signals were “I AM DESOLATE” (I have lost you), “I AM SKYLARK” (I am above you), “I AM SNAKE” (I am below you) and “I AM PANCAKING” (Obliged to return to base). The forward-firing machine guns of the straight Douglas Boston and Havoc night fighters were removed as were any defensive guns. The Turbinlite Havoc carried primitive AI Mk IV airborne interception radar, the RAF’s first air-to-air radar system. The radar was used to bring the Havoc and Hurricane hunter-killer team close to a formation of German bombers and leave the Helmore Turbinlite to illuminate the target. Operation of the radar equipment was just as much an art as it was a science and the effective use of the system depended on the experience and the ability of the operator to correctly interpret the displays on its two cathode ray tubes.

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Offline oakranger

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Re: Post your RL WWII Aircraft!
« Reply #307 on: January 08, 2017, 01:27:45 AM »
......continue.

The first units to train and employ the Turbinlite Havoc were 1451 Flight at RAF Hunsden and 1422 Flight at RAF Shoreham. By the summer of 1942, there were a number of RAF Night Fighter Flights which operated the Turbinlite Havoc. These Turbinlite Flights (smaller than a squadron) would work in unison with Hurricane and Boulton Paul Defiant night fighter squadrons from nearby bases, which supplied the team’s fighters. This initial system was far from satisfactory as there were difficulties coordinating join-ups in the dark, with fighters arriving too late or not at all. It was decided that the flights should be upgraded to Squadron status and be given both Havoc and Hurricane aircraft working as a cohesive team. All of these flights would become squadrons in September of 1942. It was thought that this teamwork concept would help ameliorate the rather abysmal operational record of the Turbinlite. It did not.
In all, 10 RAF Flights were initially converted to the Turbinlite system—including 1456 Flight at RAF Honiley (and later RAF High Ercall), 1454 Flight at RAF Charmey Down, 1458 Flight at RAF Middle Wallop, 1457 Flight at RAF Predennack, 1422 Flight at RAF Heston, 1452 Flight at RAF West Malling and 1460 Flight at RAF Acklington. Each of these RAF Havoc flights (except for 1422) would eventually become one of the new Turbinlite Squadrons numbered sequentially from 530 Squadron (1451 Flight), 531 Squadron (1452 Flight), 532 Squadron (1453 Flight) etc... through to 539 Squadron (1460 Flight). Nearly 100 Havoc/Boston aircraft were converted to the Turbinlite standard in order to supply aircraft to the ten Squadrons. All of these squadrons operated both the Havoc stalker aircraft with their own Hurricane hunters and all of them would be out of operation at the end of January 1943, only a few months after being formed.
In the summer of 1942, the Turbinlite Havoc was demonstrated for King George and Queen Elizabeth. It is not known whether this was a nighttime demonstration, but likely so. This would have been an impressive sight indeed. But sadly, the combat record of the Turbinlite Havoc and its parasite fighters was not nearly as impressive. From what I can tell, there were but a few actual contacts resulting in engagements with the enemy, and it seems that only one enemy aircraft was shot down as a result of the Turbinlite system—a Heinkel He 111. In the negative side, numerous Havocs and Hurricanes were lost while on Turbinlite operations. Most tragically however, on the night of 4–5 May 1942, a single Short Stirling bomber of 218 Gold Coast Squadron returning from an operation, was tracked, lit-up and shot down by a Havoc/Hurricane team. Given the obvious good lighting provided by the Turbinlite, it was indeed tragic that a four-engine bomber like this was shot down over England where no German four-engine aircraft were known to operate. When the sum is calculated, the Turbinlite experiment record is decidedly in the negative side.
The newer centrimetric airborne radars that were being developed in 1942 spelled the end of the ineffectual Turbinlite system. New two-seat and powerful night fighters like the Beaufighter and Mosquito, using more advanced radars and pilot and navigator/radar operator teams, gave a better chance of finding and destroying the enemy, because they had their own offensive machine guns and cannons.
The almost unimaginable power of the Turbinlite blinded more than just enemy aircrews. RAF commanders and planners pushed onwards with the Turbinlite hunter-killer concept despite the early and considerable lack of success by the original Turbinlite Flights. The establishment of the ten new squadrons, equipped with Hurricanes and Havocs, indicates a certain ill-founded hope that the Air Target Illumination concept would, given time and the right tactics, work. It took only four more months before it was finally clear, under the glare of the Turbinlite, that the system was a failure. In retrospect, it seems now to be considered merely a “stop gap” system, awaiting the development of better radar. But, at the time, I am sure the air crews involved were told it was the next best thing.                                                                                                Article by: Dave O'Malley  / Via. / http://www.vintagewings.ca
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Offline FLOOB

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Re: Post your RL WWII Aircraft!
« Reply #308 on: January 08, 2017, 08:26:04 AM »
How many RAF crew did it take to change the light bulb?
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Offline drgondog

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Re: Post your RL WWII Aircraft!
« Reply #309 on: January 23, 2017, 04:49:48 PM »
Difference between P-51-D and P-51-H.


(Image removed from quote.)
Except for a very few minor parts there are zero similarities between the B/C/D/K and the P-51H.

Completely new design that originated with the XP-51F which was also very different as it was designed from a blank Vellum sheet - not 'same as - except as shown'

The reason the H did not make WWII as the production version of the XP-51G is that the original Lightweight XP-51F did not have the internal fuel tank and only 180 gallons in the wings. When it first flew in February 1944 it was clear to AAF that the Mustang needed 250+ gallons of internal fuel to perform the escort mission.

The result was a required design change to a.) add a 50 gallon fuel tank, b.) increase wing fuel from 180 to 206 gallons, add pylons for bot external fuel or 2x1000 bombs, c.) lengthen the aft fuselage by 13" to alleviate the yaw stability issues of B/D/F/G. All that, while maintaining 11G ultimate/7.3Limit G load capability at 9600 GW drove the growth of nearly 2000 pounds combat loaded over the XP-51F.

The XP-51G with equivalent R.M.14 SM would have one helluva middle range escort/interceptor/dog fighter but AAF didn't need one with the P-80 coming on line.

My father loved the H over the D and the B, stating that it was a real pilot's airplane with no real nasty habits.   
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Offline DaveBB

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Re: Post your RL WWII Aircraft!
« Reply #310 on: January 24, 2017, 04:07:23 PM »
Believe it or not, a big problem with the P-51D that the P-51H rectified was the tailwheel falling off.  The D's tailwheel is only held on by one strut, the H has two.
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Re: Post your RL WWII Aircraft!
« Reply #311 on: January 24, 2017, 04:17:33 PM »
Believe it or not, a big problem with the P-51D that the P-51H rectified was the tailwheel falling off.  The D's tailwheel is only held on by one strut, the H has two.

That's like one of those engineer jokes. Begins by improving the tailwheel mount - ends with an entirely new airplane.  :devil
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Offline oakranger

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Re: Post your RL WWII Aircraft!
« Reply #312 on: January 24, 2017, 06:29:48 PM »
It is amazing that they still could fly it back home.

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp20/skbluestem/IMG_0086_zps9ukcpjby.jpg
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Offline Mister Fork

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Re: Post your RL WWII Aircraft!
« Reply #313 on: January 25, 2017, 09:34:25 AM »
This is a fav of mine...
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Offline DubiousKB

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Re: Post your RL WWII Aircraft!
« Reply #314 on: January 25, 2017, 09:38:49 AM »
Wow, great stuff everyone... Very interesting and scary stories.
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