Author Topic: Return from Nagasaki to Okinawa by B-29 “Bockcar”  (Read 3771 times)

Offline RonB29

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Return from Nagasaki to Okinawa by B-29 “Bockcar”
« on: February 26, 2016, 10:33:22 PM »
Return from Nagasaki to Okinawa by B-29 “Bockcar.”
In his book, “War’s End,” the aircraft commander Major Sweeney writes:

“Paul Tibbets taught me a technique that caused a lot of controversy among pilots, some vehemently denying it existed and others vocal apostles that a skilled pilot could use it. It was called “flying on the step." In theory, it was very simple.  You kept the power steady and took the aircraft into a gradual descent, the airplane would pick ups fraction more airspeed without using more power and fuel.  The pilot would then level off.  To retain the increased speed and perhaps even supplement it a bit more, you would start down another step and then another step, and so on.
     You could milk only a little bit more speed and fly a little farther without consuming more fuel, but that was all I needed—a little bit more.  I had the advantage of being at 30,000 feet, so I started my way down the staircase.
   I also decided to add some insurance by throttling back the propellers to 1,800 rpm from the recommended setting of 2,000 rpm.  Turning the numbers over in my mind, I knew this wasn’t going to be enough.  So I throttled back to 1,600 rpm, well below the engine specifications for any circumstance.  This could damage the engines, but balancing the risks against the benefits, I concluded that I’d rather replace the engines and get my crew safely tucked away for the evening than be bobbing in the Pacific aboard a life raft hoping that we’d be picked up.”

Lt. Olivi, the copilot in his book “Decision at Nagasaki,” writes:

“Sweeney throttled back and put Bockscar on the step— the maneuver we had practiced so many times before at Wendover——…”

The interesting thing to me is that Sweeney describes a dynamic maneuver to extend the range.  The Boeing POH describes ‘Flying on the step' as just over-climbing and diving slightly into your cruise condition.  I think that is the common definition.   Using the altitude dynamically, and repeatedly, for extra airspeed seems to be a key issue. Is it more fuel efficient that just setting a shallow dive, considering the extra altitude and distance to go, and flying the best speed for that descent angle?  I have used quasi-steady aerodynamics and cannot find that Sweeney’s technique, compared to a steady 0.012 radian descent angle gives any better fuel consumption.  I use the approximation that fuel usage is proportional to the horsepower multiplied by time.

I’ll be interested if anyone can find an improvement in fuel consumption using a flight simulator.


Offline Zimme83

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3077
Re: Return from Nagasaki to Okinawa by B-29 “Bockcar”
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2016, 11:04:17 PM »
Imo the question is if the technuiqe is more effective than a plane flying at 30k until it runs out of fuel and then glides as long as it can.
''The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge'' - Stephen Hawking

Offline pembquist

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1928
Re: Return from Nagasaki to Okinawa by B-29 “Bockcar”
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2016, 11:39:19 PM »
Yeah I thought the whole "getting on the step" thing was just climbing above and then descending to your altitude, the idea being that if you leveled off from a climb and accelerated you wouldn't get as fast as if you leveled off from a descent and decelerated. The notion being the drag from the elevator would be greater in the first case because it would have to be further up to achieve level flight while the decelerating aircraft's elevator would not have to pitch up and thus it could transition to a faster level flight with less pitch up because of less drag. I thought it was supposed to be bogus.

I would have thought that their would just be an altitude speed engine setting combo that would give max range and you would just set it up that way, descend at a best glide speed and then fly at whatever the best performance would be. Also wind, the jetstream was a mystery back then.
Pies not kicks.

Offline Vraciu

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 14206
« Last Edit: February 27, 2016, 12:16:01 AM by Vraciu »
”KILLER V”
Charter Member of the P-51 Mustang Skin Mafia
- THE DAMNED -
King of the Hill Champ Tour 219 - Win Percentage 100
"1v1 Skyyr might be the best pilot ever to play the game." - Via PM, Name Redacted

Offline DaveBB

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1356
Re: Return from Nagasaki to Okinawa by B-29 “Bockcar”
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2016, 08:06:10 AM »
Do you have a link to something more substantial than an old magazine article?  Maybe a peer reviewed journal article?
Currently ignoring Vraciu as he is a whoopeeed retard.

Offline Serenity

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7313
Re: Return from Nagasaki to Okinawa by B-29 “Bockcar”
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2016, 08:27:39 AM »
Getting "on the step" is a myth unless you're talking about a boat. 


https://books.google.com.ng/books?id=szhF30LW2wcC&pg=PA75&lpg=PA75&dq=peter+garrison+getting+on+the+step&source=bl&ots=eaZEL1PsR7&sig=-HTrktWQVKfji_Of2VfkAG4r9eY&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=peter%20garrison%20getting%20on%20the%20step&f=false

Actually, I think that article makes a very poignant point in the case of the B-29, with regards to the power curve up at service ceiling. These B-29s, to my understanding WERE flying very close to their service ceiling, unlike the planes mentioned in that article, and even the author points out a way in which that high-altitude flight might result in a difference.

Offline Vraciu

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 14206
Re: Return from Nagasaki to Okinawa by B-29 “Bockcar”
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2016, 09:30:11 AM »
Actually, I think that article makes a very poignant point in the case of the B-29, with regards to the power curve up at service ceiling. These B-29s, to my understanding WERE flying very close to their service ceiling, unlike the planes mentioned in that article, and even the author points out a way in which that high-altitude flight might result in a difference.

All things being equal for a given power setting there is only one cruise speed.  Period.  Whether you level off and accelerate up to it or dive past it and decelerate back to it. 

The step is a myth. 


(Do not confuse the backside of the power curve vs cruise speed for the same power setting as evidence of a step.   This is just total drag being achieved by differing factors, namely the ratio of induced vs. parasitic drag.)
« Last Edit: February 27, 2016, 09:43:11 AM by Vraciu »
”KILLER V”
Charter Member of the P-51 Mustang Skin Mafia
- THE DAMNED -
King of the Hill Champ Tour 219 - Win Percentage 100
"1v1 Skyyr might be the best pilot ever to play the game." - Via PM, Name Redacted

Offline DaveBB

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1356
Re: Return from Nagasaki to Okinawa by B-29 “Bockcar”
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2016, 09:40:19 AM »
Is it possible that the drag from angle of attack to maintain that altitude prevents an aircraft to accelerating to a speed to which is can lower its AoA and thus cruise and a lower drag?

Basically, if the manuals says that at 30,000 ft that the optimum cruise settings are 30" manifold pressure and 2000RPM, that climbing to that altitude and setting the engines to that power setting could result in an excessive nose high attitide due to lower than optimum airspeed?  But if the optimum airspeed is reached (such as from diving from a higher altitude), the settings would work?

Anecdotal evidence from B-24 pilots (with the Davis wing) mean there has to be a kernal of truth to this.  Or some other mechanism that is not being explained.
Currently ignoring Vraciu as he is a whoopeeed retard.

Offline Vraciu

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 14206
Re: Return from Nagasaki to Okinawa by B-29 “Bockcar”
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2016, 09:48:06 AM »
Is it possible that the drag from angle of attack to maintain that altitude prevents an aircraft to accelerating to a speed to which is can lower its AoA and thus cruise and a lower drag?

Basically, if the manuals says that at 30,000 ft that the optimum cruise settings are 30" manifold pressure and 2000RPM, that climbing to that altitude and setting the engines to that power setting could result in an excessive nose high attitide due to lower than optimum airspeed?  But if the optimum airspeed is reached (such as from diving from a higher altitude), the settings would work?

Anecdotal evidence from B-24 pilots (with the Davis wing) mean there has to be a kernal of truth to this.  Or some other mechanism that is not being explained.

Slow flight near the stall can take as much power as max cruise.   This is due to induced drag being high and parasite drag being low at slow speeds.   The opposite is true at high speed. 

If these points are close together one can wind up on the backside of the power curve and mush along while the airplane accelerates.   But that is not evidence of a step.   The step implies a magical phenomenon where a plane has a higher cruise speed for a given power setting because of how one gets there.  It isn't true.

Also, let's be honest.  Many of these guys had pretty limited aerodynamic knowledge.  People were flying B-17s over Germany at 18 years old with less than 200 hours total time.   

In any event, the slightest bounce of turbulence would knock you off this mythological step any way. 

Cruise speed (with all else being equal) is determined by total thrust available vs total drag. 
« Last Edit: February 27, 2016, 09:55:18 AM by Vraciu »
”KILLER V”
Charter Member of the P-51 Mustang Skin Mafia
- THE DAMNED -
King of the Hill Champ Tour 219 - Win Percentage 100
"1v1 Skyyr might be the best pilot ever to play the game." - Via PM, Name Redacted

Offline Zimme83

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3077
Re: Return from Nagasaki to Okinawa by B-29 “Bockcar”
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2016, 10:01:30 AM »
And range decrease significantly at lower altitudes due to higher fuel consumption and more drag from air resistance and thus a lower cruise speed...
''The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge'' - Stephen Hawking

Offline Vraciu

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 14206
Re: Return from Nagasaki to Okinawa by B-29 “Bockcar”
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2016, 10:11:51 AM »
And range decrease significantly at lower altitudes due to higher fuel consumption and more drag from air resistance and thus a lower cruise speed...

Depends on the airplane.   Fuel consumption for a jet decreases rapidly with altitude.  Not so much for a piston.   

Generally speaking higher altitude results in a higher true air speed for a given indicated air speed.   My airplane has its highest TAS for IAS in the mid-20s, then as I climb above that altitude my TAS falls off a bit.   Every jet I have flown has behaved similarly.   

For a normally aspirated piston engined airplane at some point altitude starts to hurt you due to a decrease in power.      There are many factors that determine what's optimal.
”KILLER V”
Charter Member of the P-51 Mustang Skin Mafia
- THE DAMNED -
King of the Hill Champ Tour 219 - Win Percentage 100
"1v1 Skyyr might be the best pilot ever to play the game." - Via PM, Name Redacted

Offline Vraciu

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 14206
”KILLER V”
Charter Member of the P-51 Mustang Skin Mafia
- THE DAMNED -
King of the Hill Champ Tour 219 - Win Percentage 100
"1v1 Skyyr might be the best pilot ever to play the game." - Via PM, Name Redacted

Offline Zimme83

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3077
Re: Return from Nagasaki to Okinawa by B-29 “Bockcar”
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2016, 11:12:31 AM »
Depends on the airplane.   Fuel consumption for a jet decreases rapidly with altitude.  Not so much for a piston.   

Generally speaking higher altitude results in a higher true air speed for a given indicated air speed.   My airplane has its highest TAS for IAS in the mid-20s, then as I climb above that altitude my TAS falls off a bit.   Every jet I have flown has behaved similarly.   

For a normally aspirated piston engined airplane at some point altitude starts to hurt you due to a decrease in power.      There are many factors that determine what's optimal.

Yep, but i was just lazy and took the short version. For pistons its prob the superchargers that is the most important factor. But the B-29 has its peak at around 30k before starting to drop off so in this case it works.
''The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge'' - Stephen Hawking

Offline BuckShot

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1721
Re: Return from Nagasaki to Okinawa by B-29 “Bockcar”
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2016, 12:02:03 PM »
Depends on the airplane.   Fuel consumption for a jet decreases rapidly with altitude.  Not so much for a piston.   

Generally speaking higher altitude results in a higher true air speed for a given indicated air speed.   My airplane has its highest TAS for IAS in the mid-20s, then as I climb above that altitude my TAS falls off a bit.   Every jet I have flown has behaved similarly.   

For a normally aspirated piston engined airplane at some point altitude starts to hurt you due to a decrease in power.      There are many factors that determine what's optimal.

What jets have you flown? Still fly? I was checked out in the Cessna 152 and Piper Warrior.
Game handle: HellBuck

Offline colmbo

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2246
      • Photos
Re: Return from Nagasaki to Okinawa by B-29 “Bockcar”
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2016, 02:29:59 PM »
All things being equal for a given power setting there is only one cruise speed.  Period.  Whether you level off and accelerate up to it or dive past it and decelerate back to it. 

The step is a myth. 

I agree that being "on step" is a myth.  However I've found that your first statement might not be true in all cases.

The B-24 is a quirky airplane.  It "seems" to have a step.  We used 30 inches and 2000 RPM for cruise which gets you about 180 IAS at around 1500 MSL.  If you get a bit ham-fisted with the elevator you can get the airplane slowed up a bit (5-10 mph) and it just doesn't want to get back up to the 180 you had before unless you bring the power up or descend a bit.  You learn to be smooth.


Columbo

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."

Fate whispers to the warrior "You cannot withstand the storm" and the warrior whispers back "I AM THE STORM"