Author Topic: Dogfight : F35 vs F16  (Read 83217 times)

Offline GScholz

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2016, 05:24:06 AM »
No one I know in the know has anything positive to say about the aircraft in its present state...

Talk to many Marine pilots? And "present state" does not represent the final product.
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2016, 05:30:30 AM »
I HAVE read things like what the Norwegian pilot has written, but I've read just as many if not more bad.

From F-35 pilots?


In fact, I've NEVER heard of orders being given from on high that pilots MUST speak well of a new plane, and that any open negatives or criticisms will be met with punishment.

Nor have I. Are you insinuating that F-35 pilots from eight partner nations and several more customer nations have been ordered by all their respective governments to say nice things about the jet? That would be quite the conspiracy.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline caldera

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2016, 07:15:17 AM »
From F-35 pilots?


Nor have I. Are you insinuating that F-35 pilots from eight partner nations and several more customer nations have been ordered by all their respective governments to say nice things about the jet? That would be quite the conspiracy.

They all have a lot invested in it.   It has to work, whether it does or not.

And since we have social justice indoctrination in the military, why not the thought police too?

http://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/judicial-watch-documents-reveal-us-army-indoctrinated-soldiers-on-dangers-of-white-privilege/
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2016, 07:22:42 AM »
Conspiracy nuts everywhere...  :rolleyes:
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Offline Zimme83

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2016, 09:55:41 AM »
Well... there sure are some worrying reports out there..
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2016, 10:03:26 AM »
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2016, 12:35:47 PM »
Talk to many Marine pilots? And "present state" does not represent the final product.

I would seriously doubt that any USMC pilot in the operational F-35B squadron would want to go into combat with the plane in its "present state". 
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2016, 12:46:13 PM »
Well... there sure are some worrying reports out there..

Yep.  This is the latest Pentagon report on the F-35 program.

FY15 DOD PROGRAMS - F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)

In the report it notes that the F-35A has to slow down in order to open its weapon bay doors.
Quote
For the F-35A, the airspeed at which the weapons bay doors can be open in flight (550 knots or 1.2 Mach) is less than the maximum aircraft speed allowable (700 knots or 1.6 Mach).  Such a restriction will limit tactics to employment of weapons at lower speeds and may create advantages for threat aircraft being pursued by the F-35A.

The same issue also creates a problem with using counter-measures.
Quote
For the F-35A, the airspeed at which countermeasures can be used is also less than the maximum speed allowable, again restricting tactical options in scenarios where F-35A pilots are conducting defensive maneuvers.

The F-35B is plagued by a series of bugs found "in fusion, electronic warfare, and weapons employment result in ambiguous threat displays, limited ability to respond to threats, and a requirement for off-board sources to provide accurate coordinates for precision attack."

The report also shows that there are issues with the ejection system, in its current state it would be very dangerous for the pilot to hit the silk and the problems will most likely cause further delays.
Quote
"Recent discoveries that require design changes, modifications, and regression testing include the ejection seat for safe separation, wing fuel tank over-pressurization, and the life-limitations of the F-35B bulkhead.  For these specific reasons and others, further program delays are likely."

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Offline Serenity

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2016, 02:24:34 PM »
Talk to many Marine pilots? And "present state" does not represent the final product.

Uh... yes... quite a few. On a daily basis. And while a few folks would like to select it, THAT'S only because they know they won't take it to war any time soon.

You can NEVER judge a product, ANY product, based solely on the claims of what it will eventually be. The fact that you are advocating throwing out the present state in favor of what tit may possibly eventually one day be, is absolute lunacy.

Offline Zoney

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2016, 03:06:24 PM »
I see all you guys talking and no one listening.    Sheesh.
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2016, 03:39:46 PM »
Uh... yes... quite a few. On a daily basis. And while a few folks would like to select it, THAT'S only because they know they won't take it to war any time soon.

I was more thinking of actual Marine F-35 pilots.


You can NEVER judge a product, ANY product, based solely on the claims of what it will eventually be. The fact that you are advocating throwing out the present state in favor of what tit may possibly eventually one day be, is absolute lunacy.

In that case we should have scrapped the F-16 in 1979. It was plagued with problems and all of its combat capabilities wasn't available until the late '80s. I mean it couldn't even fire radar guided missiles until the Block 25 upgrade in 1984-85. In the First two years of operations the USAF lost 23 F-16s in accidents. Almost all of them due to technical issues. So far a singular pre-production F-35 has been written off due to an engine fire.



« Last Edit: March 10, 2016, 03:41:57 PM by GScholz »
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline Zimme83

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2016, 03:49:03 PM »
F-16 was in the other hand designed as a cheap and lightweight day fighter. It did all the thing it was intended to do (dog fighting in day light). All the other capabilities has been added along the way. Its not the best way to do it but it is still fundamental differences between F-16 and F-35 in that case. F-35 is intended and design to replace anything from Harriers and Hornets to the A-10.
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Offline Serenity

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2016, 03:53:37 PM »
I was more thinking of actual Marine F-35 pilots.

Also yes, just not on a daily basis ;)

And while the tech they DO have is fun to play with, there's a lot of awkward "Well, I mean, we can't REALLY do [X-mission] yet, but we're hoping that gets fixed soon"

Offline GScholz

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2016, 04:24:26 PM »
As there would be in most new planes. F-16 pilots were saying that for the better part of a decade. People need to realize that every new generation of combat aircraft is a technological race and the F-35 is by far the most advanced and complicated aircraft ever built.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline Zimme83

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2016, 04:45:16 PM »
I Think everyone knows that but problem is that the plane is at least a decade from beingt able to go into war against a capable enemy and by then it might have lost most of the advantages it had from the beginning. A super advanced fighter isnt super advanced forever, others will Catch up.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2016, 05:06:41 PM by Zimme83 »
''The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge'' - Stephen Hawking