Dogfight : F35 vs F16

[GScholz]

When the Norwegian Army bought the Dingo 2 APC's for use in A-stan the resistance to it among soldiers was enormous and many openly criticized it in public.

[GScholz]

Here for example: http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/afghanistan/soldater-slakter-forsvarets-nye-millionkjoeretoey/a/10010783/

Active service personnel complaining  to the media.

[Zimme83]

You can believe whatever you want, the F-35 is not an armoured car. Its a huge different between buying 10 APC:s and investing billions in a new fighter. Too many people have invested too much in the F-35.
The pilots will not cut it down in public, for a number of reasons.

[Vraciu]

You can believe whatever you want, the F-35 is not an armoured car. Its a huge different between buying 10 APC:s and investing billions in a new fighter. Too many people have invested too much in the F-35.
The pilots will not cut it down in public, for a number of reasons.

Not to mention it is a $400 BILLION project.   

[GScholz]

Zimme, your opinion is noted.

[Zimme83]

Zimme, your opinion is noted.

Ditto.

[GScholz]

Lol!

[Vraciu]

Ditto.

Time will tell us what our watches won't. 

I just hope they put this thing out to pasture in a hurry.

[Zimme83]

They will have no choice but to make it work, no matter the cost. Hopefully it will never be tested.   

[GScholz]

Oh it will be... Since the United States was founded in 1776, there has only been 21 calendar years in which the U.S. did not wage any wars.

[Vraciu]

Oh it will be... Since the United States was founded in 1776, there has only been 21 calendar years in which the U.S. did not wage any wars.

Let's hope it's against North Korea--or downtown Chicago--then or there will be a lot of dead JSF pilots.

[bozon]

Let's hope it's against North Korea--or downtown Chicago--then or there will be a lot of dead JSF pilots.

that is ridiculous. The F-35 will not be worse than existing fighters. It has some advantages and some did advantages. The issue is that except for a few limited specific uses, it is not any significant improvment over what we have now, or that could be acheived with moderate upgrades at a fraction of the cost. The F35 will not be a failure - just an expensive disappointment.

[Vraciu]

that is ridiculous. The F-35 will not be worse than existing fighters. It has some advantages and some did advantages. The issue is that except for a few limited specific uses, it is not any significant improvment over what we have now, or that could be acheived with moderate upgrades at a fraction of the cost. The F35 will not be a failure - just an expensive disappointment.

Really?   So you think the Su-27/37 series will have trouble decimating this lightly armed, unmaneuverable, slow, IR blowtorch?

How about PAK/FA?

We have fewer than 200 combat-coded F-22s and they'll be worn out in a decade.   

Our entire force structure hinges on the JSF.   That's a recipe for disaster.   We would be better off with F-105s carrying JDAM. 

The JSF is far worse than both the F-16 and F-15 in just about every metric (and is nowhere near the league of F-22 so that doesn't even need mention).    A Strike Eagle can carry at least six times the load AND four AMRAAMs, can extend, has range, and brings utility to the fight.

The Viper, even a two-seat small mouth D with drop tanks, can wreck the JSF WVR.   

F-35?      Maybe they should call it a T/A-35 and use it for Lead-In Fighter Training.

[save]

It's probably a good idea to keep some hundreds of F22's for quite some time.

[Zimme83]

It will not be a complete disaster (hopefully) but given the amount money invested it's a disappointment. The money would have been enough for like 10.000 legacy fighters and the F-35 isn't that good that it's better than 10000 'conventional' fighters.
Sadly it would even have been better to spend the money on F-22:s instead.  1.5 trillion dollars its enough for plenty of Raptors (150 million a piece means >6000 raptors...)

So no, there is no way that it could be said that the F-35 is worth the money invested..

Edit: Development and production cost is so far 379 Billion $ But its still enough to buy 2.500 Raptors at 150 million a piece. (would be lower if they build 2500 of them so in reality the money would still be enough to buy an equal number of Raptors instead of the F-35..)