Dogfight : F35 vs F16

[Zimme83]

But you cannot accept that Pentagon confirms that the F-35 isn't gonna be ready for combat untill 2022 so you make your own definition of "combat ready".

[Vraciu]

But you cannot accept that Pentagon confirms that the F-35 isn't gonna be ready for combat untill 2022 so you make your own definition of "combat ready".

That's the soonest we can even find out.   By the time 2022 gets here this obsolescent jet will be OBSOLETE. 

[Vraciu]

But you cannot accept that Pentagon confirms that the F-35 isn't gonna be ready for combat untill 2022 so you make your own definition of "combat ready".

Also, reliance on rah rah boys within the military flying club is not a good idea.

Quote:

Pierre Sprey, a defense analyst who was involved with designing the A-10 attack jet and F-16 fighter jet, said Wednesday that he is surprised at the amount of candor in Gilmore's report. He noted that it was released in what is likely Gilmore's last year as the Pentagon's top weapons tester, considering his position is a political appointment and President Obama leaves office early next year.

"This document is probably the most extraordinary review of any weapon that has come out of the DOT&E office," Sprey said. "The fact that this escaped from the Pentagon is extraordinary. . . You really need to get a sense for what it takes to put out something as critical as this in the face of a 1.3- trillion dollar monster."

[GScholz]

See Rule #4

[Zimme83]

http://www.dodbuzz.com/2016/03/14/oversight-group-f-35-may-not-be-suitable-for-combat-before-2022/

[Zimme83]

So no, the plane isnt ready for combat, and as vraciu said:

QUOTE:

The top officer leading the F-35 program, Air Force Lt. Gen. Chris Bogdan, said in two-page response that everything in Gilmore's report is accurate, but that it "does not fully address efforts to resolve known technical challenges and schedule risks." It's the F-35 joint program office's job to do so, Bogdan said.

END QUOTE.


Translation: The airplane is woefully inadequate and isn't performing to specs.  But give us credit for TRYING.

[GScholz]

http://www.dodbuzz.com/2016/03/14/oversight-group-f-35-may-not-be-suitable-for-combat-before-2022/

POGO is not the Pentagon. Try again.

[Vraciu]

POGO is not the Pentagon. Try again.

DOT&E is the Pentagon.

Quote:

[T]he DOT&E states that “the F-35B Block 2B aircraft would need to avoid threat engagement… in an opposed combat scenario, and would require augmentation by other friendly forces.”

[GScholz]

See Rule #4

[Vraciu]

Redacted.

[Zimme83]

The report also prompted a statement from the Joint Strike Fighter Program Officer defending the aircraft.

“Although the DOT&E report is factually accurate, it does not fully address program efforts to resolve known technical challenges and schedule risks … Our government and industry team has a proven track record of overcoming technical challenges discovered during developmental and operational testing and fleet operations, and delivering on program commitments,” the statement reads, in part.  “The F-35C has now ‘caught the wire’ more than 200 times at sea, the engine rub fix is incorporated on the production line and delivered engines are being retrofitted, and the F‑35B has performed more than 1,000 vertical landings safely.”

So they say that Yes - the report is accurate but we want an A for our efforts to fix all the issues..

[GScholz]

The DoD say that the DOT&E report is factually accurate, but they disagree with the DOT&E's conclusions based on those facts.

[Vraciu]

So they say that Yes - the report is accurate but we want an A for our efforts to fix all the issues..

Here's more from the PENTAGON DOT&E report:

While Lt Gen Bogdan claims “There were no surprises in the report,” this is not factually true, as it contains many new issues that are not yet in the public domain. These include:

-- continuing issues with the ejection seat:

-- problems with heat management of the weapons bays;

-- vibrations, stresses and other bomb bay problems are out of the flight parameters of the AIM-120 missile and Small Diameter Bombs;

-- Mechanical rubbing between the gun motor drive and wall of the gun bay require structural modifications to the bay;

-- Fleet aircraft are limited to 3 Gs when fully fueled

-- Under certain flight conditions, air enters the siphon fuel transfer line and causes the pressure in the siphon fuel tank to exceed allowable limits in all variants;

-- The program completed the final weight assessment of the air vehicles for contract specification compliance; all versions are within a few hundred pounds of contractual not-to-exceed limits;

-- Refueling from tanker wing pods was prohibited due to response anomalies from the hose and reel assemblies and the F-35B aircraft with the air refueling receptacle deployed;

-- For the F-35A, the airspeed at which the weapons bay doors can be open in flight (550 knots or 1.2 Mach) is less than the maximum aircraft speed allowable (700 knots or 1.6 Mach).

-- For the F-35A, the airspeed at which countermeasures can be used is also less than the maximum speed allowable, again restricting tactical options in scenarios where F-35A pilots are conducting defensive maneuvers;

-- Although over three years have already been lost to inaction, the Program Office still does not plan to put Block 3F upgrades to the USRL on contract until late in 2016.

-- New cracks were discovered in various components of all versions;

-- Verification, Validation, and Accreditation (VV&A) activity completely stalled in 2015 and did not come close to making the necessary progress towards even the reduced set of Block 2B requirements.

-- Low availability rates are preventing the fleet of fielded operational F-35 aircraft from achieving planned, Service-funded flying hour goals.

-- A deficiency in the air vehicle’s maintenance vehicle interface (MVI)—the hardware used to upload aircraft data files—corrupted the aircraft software files during the upload process.)

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/170832/f_35-joint-program-office-responds-to-ot%26e-report.html

[Zimme83]

See Rule #4

[Zimme83]

For you G:

While Lt Gen Bogdan claims “There were no surprises in the report,” this is not factually true, as it contains many new issues that are not yet in the public domain. These include:

-- continuing issues with the ejection seat:

-- problems with heat management of the weapons bays;

-- vibrations, stresses and other bomb bay problems are out of the flight parameters of the AIM-120 missile and Small Diameter Bombs;

-- Mechanical rubbing between the gun motor drive and wall of the gun bay require structural modifications to the bay;

-- Fleet aircraft are limited to 3 Gs when fully fueled

-- Under certain flight conditions, air enters the siphon fuel transfer line and causes the pressure in the siphon fuel tank to exceed allowable limits in all variants;

-- The program completed the final weight assessment of the air vehicles for contract specification compliance; all versions are within a few hundred pounds of contractual not-to-exceed limits;

-- Refueling from tanker wing pods was prohibited due to response anomalies from the hose and reel assemblies and the F-35B aircraft with the air refueling receptacle deployed;

-- For the F-35A, the airspeed at which the weapons bay doors can be open in flight (550 knots or 1.2 Mach) is less than the maximum aircraft speed allowable (700 knots or 1.6 Mach).

-- For the F-35A, the airspeed at which countermeasures can be used is also less than the maximum speed allowable, again restricting tactical options in scenarios where F-35A pilots are conducting defensive maneuvers;

-- Although over three years have already been lost to inaction, the Program Office still does not plan to put Block 3F upgrades to the USRL on contract until late in 2016.

-- New cracks were discovered in various components of all versions;

-- Verification, Validation, and Accreditation (VV&A) activity completely stalled in 2015 and did not come close to making the necessary progress towards even the reduced set of Block 2B requirements.

-- Low availability rates are preventing the fleet of fielded operational F-35 aircraft from achieving planned, Service-funded flying hour goals.

-- A deficiency in the air vehicle’s maintenance vehicle interface (MVI)—the hardware used to upload aircraft data files—corrupted the aircraft software files during the upload process.)