Dogfight : F35 vs F16

[shift8]

The F-35 will probably be analogous to the Bradley Fighting Vehicle.  When they get all the kinks worked out, it will operate to a satisfactory condition in a limited envelope.  But like the Bradley, when the real war starts, it will be pulled out of combat due to excessive losses.

Wut.

[GScholz]

 

[Vraciu]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/03/17/military-admits-billion-dollar-war-toy-f-35-is-f-ked.html   

[GScholz]

 

"...the unit recurring flyaway cost (URFC) of the F-35A version is now heading below $100 million. This will be the price paid by U.S. and international customers for jets delivered within Low Rate Initial Production (LRIP) Lot 10..."


http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2016-07-07/f-35-unit-cost-go-below-100-million-maker-says

[Vraciu]

"...the unit recurring flyaway cost (URFC) of the F-35A version is now heading below $100 million. This will be the price paid by U.S. and international customers for jets delivered within Low Rate Initial Production (LRIP) Lot 10..."


http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2016-07-07/f-35-unit-cost-go-below-100-million-maker-says

Wishful thinking.  Also doesn't include the engine ($30M) which continues to go up in price despite numerous design flaws that have not been fixed.

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/feature/5/163182/f_35-engine-unit-costs-continue-to-grow.html

"The F-35 will be cheaper to buy and operate than current models of the F-16." - LM

The engine ALONE costs more than an F-16.

$100M for a jet sans engine that can't be used for anything until it has a powerplant....   Once it gets the flawed $30M motor it can be used for nothing but training--and that only barely as case flexing of the engine limits G available.

 Sounds like a bargain to me.

[Vraciu]

Cost per flight hour (2015):

F-16C = $22,514
F/A-18E/F = $24,400
F-35A = $42,200

Another lie by LM.

[Vraciu]

Looks like General Hawk has a cushy job waiting for him at LockMart.  No other way to explain this lunacy.


http://uk.businessinsider.com/us-rate-of-f-35-production-vital-2016-7

[Vraciu]

Ruh roh...



http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/air-space/strike/2016/07/05/martinbaker-jpo-f-35-ejection-seat-replacement/86721718/

[Vraciu]

A broken clock (McCain) is right twice a day. 

Quote:

The development of the Joint Strike Fighter, a fifth-generation stealth jet, has been beset by spiraling costs and schedule delays. The program's price tag is nearly $400 billion for 2,457 planes -- almost twice the initial estimate.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/04/26/politics/f-35-delay-air-force/

(Do the math: $160M each--and rising.   Math can't be defeated.)

Double the price for an airplane that doesn't work.   

[GScholz]

Soon the F-35 will move out of Low Rate Initial Production and enter full production. With the added benefit of economy of scale the price will drop considerably. 

"Lockheed Martin and the Joint Program Office are entering into the final stages of the System Development and Demonstration (SDD) phase of the F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) programme ahead of the ramp-up to peak production, a senior official told IHS Jane's on 7 July."

http://www.janes.com/article/62101/farnborough-2016-f-35-testing-enters-final-phase-ahead-of-peak-production

[Zimme83]

I have never figured out how it could be a good idea to start mass production before the development is finished. It will just cost a lot of money to fix all the issues on the planes already built.

Normally you do the testing first and make sure the flaws and bugs are eliminated before putting a new product into mass production..

[Vraciu]

I have never figured out how it could be a good idea to start mass production before the development is finished. It will just cost a lot of money to fix all the issues on the planes already built.

Normally you do the testing first and make sure the flaws and bugs are eliminated before putting a new product into mass production..

It's not a good idea.

And this talk of prices dropping is a joke. 

The average cost per jet for the entire program is $160M, minimum.  You can shake that out any way you like.   No matter what LM does the airplane will cost an average of $160M apiece--and climbing. 

Also, these jets are shipped with defects built in.  They then have to be sent back--multiple times--for fixes as they crop up.  NOBODY KNOWS HOW MUCH THESE FIXES WILL COST or if they'll even work.

This airplane is a disaster and no amount of cheerleading will change that fact


REMEMBER: LM and the Air Force said it would cost the same as an F-16C to acquire and operate. 

Economies of scale?   Ha.

[Vraciu]

Soon the F-35 will move out of Low Rate Initial Production and enter full production. With the added benefit of economy of scale the price will drop considerably. 

"Lockheed Martin and the Joint Program Office are entering into the final stages of the System Development and Demonstration (SDD) phase of the F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) programme ahead of the ramp-up to peak production, a senior official told IHS Jane's on 7 July."

http://www.janes.com/article/62101/farnborough-2016-f-35-testing-enters-final-phase-ahead-of-peak-production

It can't be ahead.  It's six years behind. 

It's ahead of the revised schedule that was revised again and again to cover for being nearly a decade behind the plan.

Boondoggle. 

Let's ramp up production on a defective jet that can't do anything.   Good idea. 

[GScholz]

I have never figured out how it could be a good idea to start mass production before the development is finished. It will just cost a lot of money to fix all the issues on the planes already built.

Normally you do the testing first and make sure the flaws and bugs are eliminated before putting a new product into mass production..

They haven't started mass production yet... 

[Zimme83]

Lol, no they have just build 170+ prototypes so far.