Dogfight : F35 vs F16

[save]

The radar does look similar, plane just a bit, the chinese dont rely on their plane engines and bought 2 extra for each plane 

In the background you can also see an airborne radar, just by a coincident looking like this:
(Image removed from quote.)

[Zimme83]

The radar does look similar, plane just a bit, the chinese dont rely on their plane engines and bought 2 extra for each plane 

It's the radar that is the vital part, would be a little overkill to copy the SAAB 340 as well. 

Edit: plane is obviously an AN-12 (Shaanxi Y-8 in China), they also have made a variant with a radar that looks a lot like the radar on a certain carrier based U.S aircraft:

[Krusty]

It is a slug.   Software is just an excuse.

The Big Motor Viper will chew this thing to pieces.   I can't imagine what an SU-27 will do to it.
[...]
And it has TREMENDOUS thermal energy issues as it is.   It flies low where it is hot...and as the fuel heats up the avionics shut down.  Great idea.

The facts don't bear that out. The F35-F16 fight was against a test model F-35 looking for flight data, not to determine who was the better dogfighter. It didn't have an even remotely polished flight software set.

Pilots that have THOUSANDS of hours in both F-16s and F/A-18s have said that the recent F-35s can and do dogfight well. Including out-manuevering F-16s and being able to regenerate energy lost in maneuvers much faster than Gen 4.5 fighters. Most ACTUAL PILOTS agree that it is at least as manueverable as the Hornets, and better in all other regards on top of that.

The radar shutting down mid-flight glitch has also been fixed after only a short delay. That is not a problem anymore.


The F-35 now is the most numerous 5th Gen fighter in existence. There are more F-35s in existence right this moment than there are F-22s.

[Vraciu]

There was a time when F2As outnumbered F4Fs.   Meaningless and ultimately wrongheaded.

The military keeps relearning old lessons.   I suspect learning isn't taking place at all.

The jet uses fuel as a heat sink.  Down low and slow where it can't do anything well it still generates heat.  Friction.  Atmospherics.  Avionics.   As the fuel burns off there is less of it to absorb that heat.   It's a well-documented problem. 

Helmet jitter hasn't been fixed. 

It has a laundry list of problems that somehow managed to bypass the propaganda-machine's embargo.

What are the pilots gonna do?   They gonna speak out about that?   No.   They won't.  That's how careers are ended.  Many of us have felt that wrath firsthand both inside and outside the military machine.  People bucking for promotion don't make waves.

[Krusty]

So your only claim that it's not working is that the currently unanimous declaration that everybody that's ever flown this plane thinks it's amazing and outperforms every other competitor is totally lying? No matter which country they are from or what rank or how much experience they have, or how much of an authority they are on the topic?

The unanimous decision of hundreds of people means it's all a conspiracy cover up because you have a massive political agenda?


Yeah... um.... Okay.

[Krusty]

WASHINGTON, D.C. — The Marine Corps’ top aviator said the F-35B Lighting II Joint Strike Fighter pilots have matured in their understanding of the new platform in the year since the service declared initial operational capability (IOC), pushing themselves to push past planned tactics and create a new way of using the fifth-generation technology. Lt. Gen. Jon Davis said today at an American Enterprise Institute event that he “stacked the deck” early with Top Gun graduates and weapons tactics instructors who could quickly understand the new plane and how to best use it. Over the last year, those Marines’ efforts have led to “unprecedented” successes in live and simulated tests, shooting down all targets and suffering no JSF losses in many cases.

Last summer, as a last step before recommending an IOC declaration, Davis tasked the first F-35B squadron with completing an operational readiness inspection – a test event borrowed from the Brits, he said. As part of the test, Marine Fighter Attack Squadron (VMFA) 121 performed an armed reconnaissance mission that can sometimes take AV-8B Harrier and F-18 Hornet pilots all day to complete. “These guys went out there and they found all the targets very quickly and killed all the targets,” he said, noting the early proficiency of the squadron. “Most importantly, … we put a radar [surface-to-air missile] out in the objective area. In the old days we’d have to go take care of the radar SAM, get somebody in to go take care of that because you don’t do armed reconnaissance, which is patrolling for targets out there, unless you’ve got a permissive threat environment and you beat that threat. These guys went out with the SAM in the area and did that and they killed the SAM.” Fast forward a year, he said, and the squadron has gone from proficient to innovative. Davis brought Marine Corps Commandant Gen. Robert Neller to meet the pilots and learn about the planes and tactics. During the visit, the squadron was assigned two drills.

The first was done with fewer planes than Davis thought was needed, but otherwise went according to plan. He said the pilots were given a scenario that was “very high-end, off the ship, go into the jaws of death, double-digit SAMs, fighter threat, and go after a very strategic target on the ground. I watched them do it as a foursome, which normally I would say it would be 13 or 14 airplanes normally, what I would do as [commanding officer] of the weapons school, which I was. … They killed the fighters, they killed the SAMs, they killed the target, they came home. “What was most interesting to be was not what they did but how they did it. It was very much the maturation of the pilots and how they’re flying this airplane, how they’re using information, communicating with each other, sharing information,” he continued. “It was more like watching a pack of dogs go after something. And it was force-on-force, it wasn’t scripted,” so their success – particularly with so few aircraft – was far from guaranteed.

The second drill, though, did not go as planned – in the best possible way, Davis said. The planes were to fly a close-air support mission through clouds at 1,000 feet, with the planes in the 3F configuration that allows for pylons to externally carry 18,000 pounds of bombs. “I’m out there, the commandant of the Marine Corps is out there, I want to impress the commandant,” Davis said. “This first scenario was awesome, and then right before the second scenario I said, are we ready to go? And this young major comes up … he goes, ‘we’re not going to do exactly what you want us to do.’ I’m like [eyes grow wide]. “Because we didn’t think the tasking was challenging enough. So we’ve got two that are slick and two that are loaded up as bomb trucks. We can do the job sir, don’t worry.’” So two planes forfeited their external carry capacity in exchange for stealth, and “it was a work of art,” Davis said. The planes hit all their targets in five and a half minutes, with the four planes passing images through the clouds and successfully taking out the missile threat early on. “I just watched, I’m like, that’s not how my brain works, but that is the way their brains are working,” he said. “Gen.(Charles) Krulak, who I used to work for, said ‘you don’t man the equipment, you equip the man,’ so we’re equipping these young Marines, this generation that doesn’t know any bounds for latitude for technology, and they’re leveraging this technology and doing great things.”

After the event, Davis told USNI News that, in addition to the squadrons, the F-35B test squadron has been an agent for innovation with the new airplane. “We have VMX-1, which is our test squadron. We put very creative folks in there and they’re asking why all the time,” he said. “One, they’re actually getting the test plan we’ve got to do for the airplane to get the capabilities as quick as we can, but they’re also, they have tactical hunger and they want to do better and they see opportunities out there, can we do this, can we do this, can we do this.”

https://news.usni.org/2016/07/29/f-35b-tactics-evolving#more-20947

[Vraciu]

Looks like you're not keeping up with the thread.   This is a PR effort orchestrated from above (as proven by leaked official documents).  See previously posted evidence.

You can say whatever you want.  This airplane is not an F-22.   It wasn't designed to be.  It never will be.  It is almost a decade behind schedule and will be clubbed by current and emerging threats.

It is a glossy A-7 baseball card.

[Vraciu]

Lol.  The Marines still have no way to transport the pads or the fuel to forward deploy this piece of junk. 

Ignorance is bliss.  Semper What's His Name.

[Krusty]

You're the only one trying to make false comparisons. You're the only one pushing a massive chip on your shoulder.

This is not a PR stunt. The aircraft is performing well so far. It isn't perfected nor refined yet by a long shot. The F-16 had so many compromises made for IOC that the Air Force didn't get what they originally wanted for TEN YEARS until Block 30 arrived. The Soviets admit that the F-111 was their greatest fear in Europe and positioned forces to counter it, but the F-111 had more cost overruns, delays, and flat-out pilot deaths due to structural failures than the F-35 has had so far. The Superhornet is so woeful that it's not even utilitarian. It has to run with 2 gas bags for even short missions, has to refuel after every takeoff and before every landing, and is draggy and poorly designed, underpowered, and not efficient to maintain. They're even raising the Super Hornet prices continuously while the F-35 prices drop. They're trying in vain to promote the hell out of it to every foreign buyer, except that in EVERY instance where the F-35 has been pitted against the Super Hornet, the Super Hornet isn't even a contender. It's wiped out of the contest handily.

There are many problems with the F-35 problem. If you focus on them you can understand where it is and where it's going. Simply calling the entire world of military aviators propoganda puppets makes you sound clinically insane. Put your tinfoil hat on.


P.S. You keep spam posting 3-4-5 times in a row. You don't need to do that. The F-35B isn't any more damaging than the Harrier it's replacing, which also requires cooled pads and prepared carrier decks. Harriers have destroyed runways more than F-35s.

[Vraciu]

Good to see Koolaid won't be out of business any time soon. 

Derp.

[save]

chinese copy vs real land rover :

http://www.carnewschina.com/2016/08/03/crash-of-the-year-range-rover-evoque-hits-landwind-x7-in-china/

They can copy ANYTHING they want in China, including planes without going to court. God knows what happens when international companies outsource their It business to them.

[Meatwad]

chinese copy vs real land rover :

http://www.carnewschina.com/2016/08/03/crash-of-the-year-range-rover-evoque-hits-landwind-x7-in-china/

They can copy ANYTHING they want in China, including planes without going to court. God knows what happens when international companies outsource their It business to them.

They copied windows

[shift8]

Good to see Koolaid won't be out of business any time soon. 

Derp.

I know right? If Koolaid didn't exist, how else would we get all the comically misguided F-35 haters? 

[Vraciu]

I know right? If Koolaid didn't exist, how else would we get all the comically misguided F-35 haters? 

Hey, nice job inverting reality.   

[shift8]

Hey, nice job inverting reality.   

Not hard to do after you turned it upside down for us.