Author Topic: thought on new computer  (Read 759 times)

Offline flatiron1

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thought on new computer
« on: March 10, 2016, 09:41:09 AM »
Would a computer with these specs run the new version at a good level?  It would be a digital storm brand model vanquish level1


Specs: vanquish  lev 1
- Intel Core i5 6500 CPU
- NVIDIA GTX 960 4GB
- 8GB DDR4 2133MHz Memory
- 120GB Solid State Drive
- H110 Motherboard
- 500W Power Supply
- DVD-R/RW/CD-R/RW
- LED Internal Lighting
- Microsoft Windows 10

the next level would be $273.00 more. need to get out as cheap as possible.

Specs:  vanquish  lev 2
- Intel Core i5 6500 CPU
- NVIDIA GTX 970 4GB
- 8GB DDR4 2133MHz Memory
- 240GB Solid State Drive
- 1TB 7200RPM HDD
- H110 Motherboard
- 600W Power Supply
- DVD-R/RW/CD-R/RW
- LED Internal Lighting
- Microsoft Windows 10

Offline Bizman

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Re: thought on new computer
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2016, 10:26:45 AM »
Yes, both would run it quite well. As you can guess, the more expensive one will give you more eye candy.

Since you need to get out as cheap as possible, I'd opt the LED Internal Lighting out.

For being able to install more than one game I'd also change the SSD to a regular HDD. Especially the 120 GB SSD will soon get full. You know that an SSD has absolutely no effect on your frame rate, don't you? The more expensive one has both, allowing you to save $77 by opting the SSD out.

Windows 10... Read the discussions in the Hardware section.



Quote from: BaldEagl, applies to myself, too
I've got an older system by today's standards that still runs the game well by my standards.

Kotisivuni

Offline Skuzzy

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Re: thought on new computer
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2016, 10:40:51 AM »
The 970 is a much better video card than the 960 and will have more impact on AH3, than AH2.

I would drop the SSD, get the 970, add a second hard drive.  Run the OS on one drive, all applications/data on the second drive.

The only thing an SSD gets you is potentially faster load times, which is a small percentage of what your computer is doing.  I would NOT load AH3 on an SSD.
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Offline MADe

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Re: thought on new computer
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2016, 09:54:06 PM »
The 970 is a much better video card than the 960 and will have more impact on AH3, than AH2.

I would drop the SSD, get the 970, add a second hard drive.  Run the OS on one drive, all applications/data on the second drive.

The only thing an SSD gets you is potentially faster load times, which is a small percentage of what your computer is doing. I would NOT load AH3 on an SSD.

Please to clarify, I will be using RAID'ed SSD's. Have for years. Whats AH3 doing that affects SSD's life??????????????????
 :salute
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: thought on new computer
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2016, 11:03:49 PM »
SSDs in RAID are not very helpful for anything outside of recording at ultra HD resolutions.

I have one system that runs Windows 10 on a 120GB SSD, but it only has Windows, antivirus, and game capture software. It is not anywhere near full, but it also records to a 6TB HDD so it never will get full.

I have another system on a 256GB SSD, but all of the libraries like documents, videos, photos, etc. have been moved to a hard drive. Games are mounted on a 1TB SSD (except for AH of course) and the backup image is stored on a 3.84TB SSD so that when Windows 10 bricks I can restore it in less than 30 minutes. You DO NOT want to do this to yourself.
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Offline MADe

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Re: thought on new computer
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2016, 11:30:00 AM »
Did not answer the question tho, why no AH on an SSD? It really should not matter.

SSD's draw less power, are soundless, are fast. As far as RAID'ing, matter of choice, by RAID'ing the C drives R/W speeds are using the available SATA bandwith, my case 3GB/s. My SSD's are pushing 10 years old now, just got to pet them right.
Yes my setup does not add benefit to gaming, but I would never go back to spin drives in main machine. I have a personal cloud for saves.

I like responsiveness, I have it.
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Offline Skuzzy

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Re: thought on new computer
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2016, 12:35:27 PM »
Please to clarify, I will be using RAID'ed SSD's. Have for years. Whats AH3 doing that affects SSD's life??????????????????
 :salute

You cannot change the size of a file on an SSD like you can on a hard drive.  The SSD has to make a copy of the file, then delete the original file.  Our patcher already does this function, so it is happening twice on an SSD. 

While we are in Beta, we are patching a lot of files and doing it often.  More than one user is having problems with patches failing due to the way SSD's have to allocate and deallocate space.

SSD's really are not a good choice when you are creating/altering/deleting small files often.
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Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: thought on new computer
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2016, 03:03:26 PM »
My SSD's are pushing 10 years old now, just got to pet them right.


I like responsiveness, I have it.

WOW, what brand and Model SSD's did you buy back then? bet they were extremely expensive, to say the least

most SSD's w/ SATA I, II or III connection, do not have trash collection or TRIM available if you set them up in RAID, regardless if it is RAID 0 or 1, etc... something a SSD seriously needs if it is going to try and keep / maintain any amount of Drive optimization for any length of time

I would think, running 2 SSD's that are pushing 10 years old, in RAID, would have hardly any optimal performance at all

interesting post.....

"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline Spikes

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Re: thought on new computer
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2016, 03:19:59 PM »
Did not answer the question tho, why no AH on an SSD? It really should not matter.

SSD's draw less power, are soundless, are fast. As far as RAID'ing, matter of choice, by RAID'ing the C drives R/W speeds are using the available SATA bandwith, my case 3GB/s. My SSD's are pushing 10 years old now, just got to pet them right.
Yes my setup does not add benefit to gaming, but I would never go back to spin drives in main machine. I have a personal cloud for saves.

I like responsiveness, I have it.
So you only have 150gb of physical storage? Ouch.
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Offline MADe

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Re: thought on new computer
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2016, 03:27:26 PM »
They are OCZ Vertex, 30MB size, $110 each at purchase.
They are using the turbo firmware, current config is 4 in RAID 0.

I have had as many as 5 and little as 3 in an array. No trim because of RAID but FW has Garbage Collection.
I have used them hard but I also took care of them. My bench machine is a single 30MB Vertex SSD with XP Pro on it. That machine is off mostly but the SSD with XP runs nice. I have 1 vertex ssd I installed w7/32 on, then put it back in the box.

Lots of small R/W's have always been bad for life spans of SSD's, but maintenanced right........................ .I think I have gotten good life because periodically I did a clean install of OS. I did a factory reset of drives each time. It was not a single OS install that went on for years. I have come to understand how software/hardware errors/issues can be confused between the two. Sometimes hardware just needs a software wipe.

Must be why the later beta patch failed, altho I must say the majority of patch's worked fine.
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Offline MADe

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Re: thought on new computer
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2016, 03:34:20 PM »
So you only have 150gb of physical storage? Ouch.

less now, 110MB by choice.

I do not believe in large drives. I use the c drive to drive the box, any serious storage for me is transferred to an NAS or a secondary drive in box. I use the box for the immediacy of modern stuff, but I am not a user of pictures or many of the media storage items. Its like my truck/pc I drive it and tow camper/NAS with it.
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Offline Mano

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Re: thought on new computer
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2016, 05:41:02 PM »
Skuzzy I run AH3 on a SSD. I have my OS on one SSD and my apps on the other SSD. I have not had any problems so far.
It loads really fast too. I do have the latest Asus motherboard drivers for the SSD's running in ACHI mode. Win 8.1

 :salute
« Last Edit: March 17, 2016, 05:46:05 PM by Mano »
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Offline Skuzzy

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Re: thought on new computer
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2016, 06:12:36 AM »
Just because you are not having a problem today, does not mean there will not be a problem tomorrow.  Again, it really is in the best interests of your hardware when I say it is not a good idea to run the Beta on an SSD, but it is your hardware.
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Offline Pudgie

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Re: thought on new computer
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2016, 10:36:48 AM »
Just because you are not having a problem today, does not mean there will not be a problem tomorrow.  Again, it really is in the best interests of your hardware when I say it is not a good idea to run the Beta on an SSD, but it is your hardware.

What Skuzzy is saying is right, the Beta is going to be doing a lot more writes to a SSD than AHII ever did which is going to increase the potential for a SSD to fail. Skuzzy didn't say when it was going to fail or even if it is going to fail while the Beta is running.....or not to use a SSD to run AHII or the Beta on it for that matter....he is not speaking to us geeks who frequent this BBS and should have some knowledge of the risks and have accepted these risks. He is speaking to those who are reading all our posts who may not know of or even understand all the technological background and the risks involved w\ the use of a SSD but are reading our posts that do seem to "refute" these tested and PROVEN risks of using an SSD and more importantly, read to imply that what Skuzzy is saying is not true.

Make no mistake, the latest SSD rewrite testing has shown 2 truths, #1 truth is that SSD quality has gotten much, much better, modern OS's have coded in native TRIM support among other things and SSD firmware has gotten better at garbage collection and NAND sector provisioning to make what MADe has been doing a more transparent user operation (meaning less user input to do the same things that MADe does, outside of the OS installs and SSD RAID array maintenance but there are now RAID SSD's built to interface thru a single SSD controller on a single SSD platform that TRIM can work on now if you are willing to pay for it, the price\performance side) and the use of SSD caching software to reduce the amount of overall writes to a SSD in a given amount of time of usage by using system memory as a ramdisk so using SSD's nowadays are much safer to use and do last far longer from a rewriting perspective in general than times past BUT also make no mistake that the #2 truth is that the SSD rewrite testing still shows that ALL SSD's, regardless of all the advancements to date, will still FAIL for the very SAME reasons that they failed in the past.....it only took MUCH LONGER for the recent crop of SSD's to reach failure than the earlier ones did.

Until the day arrives that the SSD NAND sector development reaches the point that the NAND can be written to multiple times w\o incurring ANY NAND sector damage whatsoever across eternity, the risk is still there for a SSD to eventually fail due to multiple writes to it. This IF part of SSD usage is a fact. The WHEN an SSD will fail part is the only argument that can't be tied to a specific time frame or even SSD usage pattern for that matter and it is this part of the argument that all the discussion on the BBS from all of us posters is really all about.

I myself am using all SSD's in my box as noted in sig below, have been using the 2 OCZ Vertex4 SATAIII SSD's since 10-'12 (the Plextor PCI-E SSD was added last year) w\ a pagefile set up on them along w\ ReadyBoost enabled on top of that and am using Plextor's Turbo Cache software on the PCI-E SSD to date and have found not 1 SSD's NAND sector gone bad to date and not 1 SSD in my box has tested to show any sign of performance loss to date BUT my results to date does not PROVE that what Skuzzy has said is WRONG when all the SSD rewriting testing that has been done actually still PROVES Skuzzy to be RIGHT. The only thing concerning SSD rewrite failures that has really changed is the time frame and to an extent the severity of the failure itself in which to expect from a SSD when it "potentially" fails.

It is all about user risk tolerance and understanding the virtues\consequences of using SSD's when making a choice as to whether a user chooses to use a SSD or a HDD in their computer as both devices will still FAIL, just 1 has a much better track record vs the other in this regard, at this time in their development cycles.

Ok I'm done.

You may now continue w\ this discussion.

 :D  :salute
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Offline MADe

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Re: thought on new computer
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2016, 09:55:22 PM »
Pudgie great explanation for the layman.
Skuzzy is 100% correct. This is what you want to point out when a peep wants to understand a piece of hardware with a mind to spend cash.
 :salute

I think of it like this. 1 nand = 1 light bulb, The filament burns out eventually.

Where archived work is the end game, SSD's bad.
Where performance response is wanted, SSD's good.

I am quite surprised how long mine have lasted, SSD's have changed 100% since I bought mine. Hybrids, multi tera byte........for chump change.

Best of both worlds is to use an SSD for the OS and basic app working environment with a HDD as a secondary for all work/picture/edited files.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2016, 10:02:16 PM by MADe »
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