Tesla unveils model 3

[PJ_Godzilla]

I recognize that it's possible, Morf, but even adding siding lanes to electrify the road grid is another moonshot.

I also recognize the age of electric propulsion - and there was a reason we left  it.

On a side note, the old Edison/Tesla debate over AC/DC ended in that horrible elephant-frying incident. It's a funny backstory, for those interested in historical trivia. The AC/DC debate was kind of silly to begin.

[Skuzzy]

I am thinking hydrogen fuel cell hybrids are a better solution, but that is still pie-in-the-sky thinking.

The current battery technology just is not there yet and may never get there.

[PJ_Godzilla]

I was pretty involved in our last Fuel Cell Project, back in the day. The issue there is the cost of the stack and its platinum-intensity... and hydrogen storage, which is tricky, given how tiny the molecules are.

[Skuzzy]

I was pretty involved in our last Fuel Cell Project, back in the day. The issue there is the cost of the stack and its platinum-intensity... and hydrogen storage, which is tricky, given how tiny the molecules are.

Every bit of technology to get us away from oil has some level of problems to solve, for sure.  Yes, hydrogen storage and the cost are issues for sure. 

Still, as a clean solution, I think it offers more merit than any other solution available.  There is probably some scientist working on a polymer based fuel cell.  Seems they are getting polymers to do everything these days.

[caldera]

"Dr. Nichols, I understand you're still working with polymers."

[morfiend]

I recognize that it's possible, Morf, but even adding siding lanes to electrify the road grid is another moonshot.

I also recognize the age of electric propulsion - and there was a reason we left  it.

On a side note, the old Edison/Tesla debate over AC/DC ended in that horrible elephant-frying incident. It's a funny backstory, for those interested in historical trivia. The AC/DC debate was kind of silly to begin.

 As you say it might be pie in the sky type of thing and may not be practical for every vehicle but I could see buses using it as well as transport trucks. We use diesel electrics in trains why not down scale that to cars,a simple 250cc diesel to charge a battery pack?

 Edison killed many dogs,cats and a few pigs trying to diswade the use of Tesla's AC but his DC system was only good for a city block and only useful for lighting.....

 BTW it was the storage battery that was Edison's biggest pay day..... Kinda ironic......


   

 PS: Royalties are still paid to this day!

[ghi]

A few thoughts.
I also have an issue with all electric/hybrid vehicles for any northern climes where salt gets put on the road:  an electric car that spend months in an electrolytic bath of road spray?
  Also, battery performance (i.e. range) when the temperatures drop well below freezing.

I took this shot last evening driving through Toronto,  thinking about your wise words  ;
hmm , how is the autopilot going to read  lane markings?     we need an arctic edition with moose bumper, wood stove and ejecting seat .

[Chalenge]

Lithium reserves cannot fuel America's insatiable desire for automobiles, since just two years at full production would exhaust reserves even if we were not using lithium in airplanes, golf carts, cell phones, etc., etc. But the more fuel types the better, right?

[Randy1]

. . .The current battery technology just is not there yet and may never get there.

And there lies the problem.  Even Edsion in his day the battery had limited potential.

The storage battery is, in my opinion, a catchpenny, a sensation, a mechanism for swindling the public by stock companies. The storage battery is one of those peculiar things which appeals to the imagination, and no more perfect thing could be desired by stock swindlers than that very selfsame thing. ... Just as soon as a man gets working on the secondary battery it brings out his latent capacity for lying. ... Scientifically, storage is all right, but, commercially, as absolute a failure as one can imagine."

[PJ_Godzilla]

 As you say it might be pie in the sky type of thing and may not be practical for every vehicle but I could see buses using it as well as transport trucks. We use diesel electrics in trains why not down scale that to cars,a simple 250cc diesel to charge a battery pack?

 Edison killed many dogs,cats and a few pigs trying to diswade the use of Tesla's AC but his DC system was only good for a city block and only useful for lighting.....

 BTW it was the storage battery that was Edison's biggest pay day..... Kinda ironic......


   

 PS: Royalties are still paid to this day!

It's interesting that you mention that, since, to my mind, the most compelling product Tesla offers is a home use Li-ion storage battery. Since I'm now living on the west side of town and since the power lines between the station and my house are, at some point (not in the neighborhood) above ground, I installed a whole house genset with auto switching. That's great - BUT... it runs full tilt, whether I'm using 22kw or not.

The Tesla storage battery, for not that much additional cost, would give me a buffer. https://www.teslamotors.com/powerwall I'd also like to do some PV solar on my land, eventually. These will be fun projects for the future.

As for Chalenge's (never got that spelling... why?) assertion about diversification, I can only agree, though I think the market actually handles this mechanism pretty well. We used to always talk about thresholds in fuel prices... at $3/gal, x alt becomes commercially viable, etc. And most of the large producers with whom we worked (BP - a real freak show) recognized as much and were diversifying to protect themselves.

My recollection, Skuzzy, was that we and Ballard were investigating alterantive metals for the FUel Cell stacks, but I'm long since removed from that research thread.

[morfiend]

Ya PJ,Ballard was working on that but I've heard little from them in the past 2 or 3 years!  They were an up and coming Canuk company which I own about .0000000000012% of....

   I'd have to check the stock price tho as it might only be.0000000000006% 


  I would think you could use good old lead acid cells with the generator instead of spending good money on a LiPo setup.One would only need a decent converter to switch to 110A/C and your generator wouldnt need to run full bore!


  As I understand they use a dual battery pack and a small diesel to charge the battery pack not in use on buses in some European countries,I heard they get about 120 mph per 50 people on this system.  Seems like this could be scaled down for auto use,but hey they'd have to measure fuel economy in gallons per hour and that just isnt right!!!



   

[ghi]

It's interesting that you mention that, since, to my mind, the most compelling product Tesla offers is a home use Li-ion storage battery. Since I'm now living on the west side of town and since the power lines between the station and my house are, at some point (not in the neighborhood) above ground, I installed a whole house genset with auto switching. That's great - BUT... it runs full tilt, whether I'm using 22kw or not.

The Tesla storage battery, for not that much additional cost, would give me a buffer. https://www.teslamotors.com/powerwall I'd also like to do some PV solar on my land, eventually. These will be fun projects for the future.

This powerwall batteries / solar panels packages offer the freedom to live anywhere ; buy some land , a sattelite dish for Internet, pump water grow your own food ,smell the flower watch the birds enjoy life.
  But..they made off grid living ilegal  here in Canada and in US, have to work and pay for utility companies stockholders.

[DaveBB]

Tesla has a winner with this one. My neighbor two houses down, his son who graduated from UW 5 years ago, hired on at Boeing, left for Tesla 4 years ago. Happy as a clam as an engineer for Tesla. They're a good company.

Hint: You shoulda bought stock in them 5 years ago like we did.

Insider trading.  I'm contacting the NEC.

[Chalenge]

It's been illegal here in Florida for two years now.

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2014/03/09/florida-makes-off-grid-living-illegal-mandates-all-homes-must-be-connected-to-an-electricity-grid/

“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozler has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.” - Carl Sagan

[PJ_Godzilla]

Ya PJ,Ballard was working on that but I've heard little from them in the past 2 or 3 years!  They were an up and coming Canuk company which I own about .0000000000012% of....

   I'd have to check the stock price tho as it might only be.0000000000006% 


   

They've probably gone belly up. The funny thing was, I was very UN-interested in investing in them, mainly because I knew they were a captive supplier to us and had little accountability. OTOH, I knew a guy who made money of the buzz around them, just on a transient buy-sell in the 90's.

Actually, just looking them up now... they're actually trading at 1.37. DON'T TOUCH IT.

And, yes, I'm not surprised their alt metal research never paid off.

As for using lead acid... it doesn't offer the cycle life, especially at high DoD, and weighs tons, though it has the upside of being one hell of a lot cheaper.