Author Topic: After all the Recent Discussion......  (Read 4293 times)

Offline Arlo

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Re: After all the Recent Discussion......
« Reply #30 on: April 09, 2016, 05:09:30 PM »

Offline LCADolby

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Re: After all the Recent Discussion......
« Reply #31 on: April 09, 2016, 05:14:14 PM »
Gonna be pretty hard to not automatically bail when you're missing a wing.  I've done it so many times, my brain is no longer part of the procedure; just spinal chord and fingers doing all the work.  If that's gonna cost a side 200 points as suggested, the scoring is gonna be in the negative numbers pretty much every time.

I am exactly the same; Last night I had a yak9T warp from 800 yards to 200 and remove my wing with it's bloody boom gun. Before the plane completed the snap roll I had hit enter 3 times, cursed like a trooper as I hit "O! and "/.ef". That would have been -200 to us, and the warper getting off free.

There is nothing wrong with bailing (and towering out) from a plane that's going down it was done irl, but to pull out your 45 and using it to kill people rearming or Letting your teammates know people are Rearming is cheating And needs to carry is severe penalty.
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Offline Kingpin

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Re: After all the Recent Discussion......
« Reply #32 on: April 09, 2016, 05:33:03 PM »
There is not going to be a rule stating you can't bail out in FSO. We don't need it and it's not happening. I believe I said as much in the last thread. Why? because we can't prevent players from bailing out and I am not about to police it. What rules we have need to be ones we need for a good reason. Slapping a rule on anything and everything we don't like will bog us down in a rule system that will look like the Federal Tax Code. I'm not going there.

...but asking guys not to land via chute...then navigate towards a base...and then start shooting planes with a 45...well that takes some doing, there is a rule against it and it will be enforced.

The vast majority of players in FSO abide by the rules. Let's remember that as well.

Well said. 

The rule already exists -- you exit when you are shot down and you NEVER shoot your .45.  Perhaps it needs to be clarified to say "immediately end flight (.ef)", but there is nothing here that requires a rule change or a debate along those lines.

The existing rule was clearly violated, so this is only a matter of enforcement now.  How it is enforced and the penalty that is issued is the key to limiting this kind of behavior. 

In most team sports, when one member of a team ignores the rules, the penalty impacts their whole team, not just the individual.  Likewise, FSO rules violations should have penalties that affect an entire squad and/or side, to ensure that squads and sides police things themselves.  This allows CM's to fairly and consistently referee events and issue penalties, which should be their role, without turning them into cops policing events and chasing individuals.

I agree that points alone may not be an adequate deterrent.  I believe a combination of something like erasing ALL that squads points for that frame (penalizing the side) AND assigning a squad penalty aircraft for the next frame (penalizing the squad) would be a far more effective deterrent than suspending or punishing individual pilots for a frame.  This is particularly true when you had TWO players from the same squad violating a rule together, clearly communicating and coordinating their efforts and NOTHING was said by their squadmates or side to tell them they shouldn't be running around on the ground.

Penalties should be on a squad level, to ensure they are dealt with there, and stiff enough to act as a deterrent, not just seek to "fix" things or balance out the "what if it didn't happen" equation.

My two cents.

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« Last Edit: April 09, 2016, 05:43:25 PM by Kingpin »
Quote from: bozon
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Offline tmetal

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Re: After all the Recent Discussion......
« Reply #33 on: April 09, 2016, 05:41:31 PM »
Drano, I think you are reading more into what branch has posted than what he really meant. All he stated is that he encourages his squad to bail out of broken planes because of some squad scoring they keep, he never said he encourages his squad to not tower out immediately after bailing. Nowhere in his post does it indicate that he wants his pilots to break any rules, he just doesn't want to see a automatic penalty put in place for anybody who has the term "bravely bailed" on their score card at the end of the night. Luckily it doesn't look like that is the way the CM team wants to go.
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Offline captain1ma

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Re: After all the Recent Discussion......
« Reply #34 on: April 09, 2016, 05:54:28 PM »
of course the problem with not being able to bail at all, is if you're in a bomber formation. if they hit the piloted plane, and you can bail, you take your drones with you! that's not a good thing......

I have to give credit to alpo, I did not think of that, he did!

Offline Drano

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Re: After all the Recent Discussion......
« Reply #35 on: April 09, 2016, 06:59:50 PM »
I'm clearly missing something here.

What is the difference.....

IN FSO....

between a death, ditch or bail?

Is the scoring different?...

IN FSO?

I don't think it is.

The points in FSO are for that frame, for your side. NO ONE GETS ANY INDIVIDUAL POINTS....

IN FSO!

So why? Why bail? What's the point of it? Some people are abusing it. That's clear. Otherwise this whole discussion isn't happening. So why leave it as an option to be abused? Why put more load on the CMs to have to deal with? Just outlaw bailing, which has ABSOLUTELY ZERO PURPOSE IN FSO...... and this "problem" is solved.

I can tell you I've been doing this a long, long time now and I don't think I can recall bailing from a plane ever. Here if you're dead you're dead. Bailing is a waste of time you could spend gunning for someone.

FWIW, I had not considered the bombers, but that's a different animal. Bail from one bomber of a formation and that plane plummets to the earth. It's AI crew rides it to their deaths like men! Just as dead. Just as many points just changed sides of the ledger.

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Offline ImADot

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Re: After all the Recent Discussion......
« Reply #36 on: April 09, 2016, 07:37:50 PM »
Anything other than a successful landing is scored as a death. Ditch, crash, explode, bail, etc...as soon as you leave your plane, you have died.
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Offline snakeplissken

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Re: After all the Recent Discussion......
« Reply #37 on: April 09, 2016, 08:06:15 PM »
Also.  There is no way to disable the .45.  We rely on pilots and squads for that...
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Offline Kingpin

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Re: After all the Recent Discussion......
« Reply #38 on: April 09, 2016, 08:37:51 PM »
I'm clearly missing something here.

Yes, I think you might be missing three important points, all of which have been stated in this thread:

1) The rule against using your .45 already exists.

2) Squire/Warloc has stated that they are not going to add a rule against bailing because bailing from a damaged bomber in a formation is necessary.

3) This is a matter of enforcing the rules, not trying to change them.

<S>
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Quote from: bozon
For those of us playing this game for well over a decade, Aces High is more of a social club. The game just provides the framework. I keep logging in for the people and Pipz was the kind that you keep coming to meet again.

Offline Drano

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Re: After all the Recent Discussion......
« Reply #39 on: April 09, 2016, 08:41:01 PM »
Oh I haven't missed any of that amigo. But if people are getting in that habit of abusing things--as they are-- then I say remove it. Simplifies everything. No point in it, other than the bombers, but I've stipulated to that.

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Offline KCDitto

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Re: After all the Recent Discussion......
« Reply #40 on: April 09, 2016, 11:24:14 PM »
With that line of thinking...

If your engine quits or you run out of gas because of a fuel tank hit, you should just nose over and lawn dart into the ground!

 :rofl

Offline Drano

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Re: After all the Recent Discussion......
« Reply #41 on: April 09, 2016, 11:34:11 PM »
Well if you're going to make it back to your base in a glide then absolutely go for it. That's the only reason to bother. If you have no shot to make it even out of sight of an NME field and you're just sitting there to flash the base then that's a good example of being a tool.

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Offline RufusLeaking

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Re: After all the Recent Discussion......
« Reply #42 on: April 10, 2016, 08:09:26 AM »
FSO is one of the reasons I still subscribe. Are we trying to make it like work?

One guy managed to get the rearm pad on foot. How often does that happen? How often is that even possible? He was attacking the field, so he was over it. He got shot down. The field was deacked. It is a freak incident.

The accusation of cheating is BS. Telling your side what you are seeing or have seen is legitimate. It is going to continue to happen.

The 'victims' in this incident were rearming at a targeted field. The arrival of the slower Il-2s was going to happen, regardless of the crazed .45 shooter.

The only wrong doing was a rules violation on actions after bail out.

Now, let's set down our participation trophies and focus on having fun.
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Offline Squire

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Re: After all the Recent Discussion......
« Reply #43 on: April 11, 2016, 06:17:22 PM »
A suspension for the rest of April FSO has been handed out to the player arising from the incident with the .45. The scoring part will be adjusted for frame 1 when I score it. I consider the matter concluded.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2016, 06:20:22 PM by Squire »
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Offline 68ZooM

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Re: After all the Recent Discussion......
« Reply #44 on: April 11, 2016, 10:45:16 PM »
A suspension for the rest of April FSO has been handed out to the player arising from the incident with the .45. The scoring part will be adjusted for frame 1 when I score it. I consider the matter concluded.
Thank you Warloc for a dressing this matter
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