Ok, help me out here.

[-lazs-]

AH gives some pretty good speed and climb data for the planes but...

In you guys opinion, what is the ranking, best to worst of the (fighter)planes in AH, turn wise?  Best  360 degree turn with or without flaps to worst.
lazs

[ra]

This type of thing shouldn't be left to opinions, someone should do some reasonable scientific tests.

ra

[Vermillion]

ra is correct for a definitive answer.

But here is what my impression of best to worse, from playing, for horizontal flat turns at corner speeds, assuming turning left.

Spit V
C.202
Spit IX
N1K2
C.205
Bf109F
Bf109G2
P-38
Bf109G6
F4U (both models)
P-51
Fw190A8
Bf109G10
Typhoon

Again these are just my impression, and as you get farther down the list, the differences become smaller and smaller, and pilot skill and response time becomes more critical.

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

[AKDejaVu]

I've never liked the "turn rate" comparisons.  It is good to know how your particular plane turns, but this should be more through experience than reading numbers.

It seems most lessons learned in WWII involved gun footage and eye-witness accounts as opposed to hard-core data.  Sure, we captured planes and tested them out... but that was with our pilots flying them.. not theirs.  Our test pilots weren't green... they weren't fighting for their lives when they tested them... they didn't test enemy tactics.  They only tested the aircraft.

I guess it just takes away from the whole WWII immersion if people sit around and talk about precise climb-rates and turn-rates.  It just seems the lectures in the ready-room would have involved "don't try to turn with a zeke" or "don't try to out-climb a Spit" or "Don't try to out-run a mustang".... Less of it would have been "a mustang is capable of 409 IAS at 20k and a 109 is only capable of 404... so if you get co-alt and co-speed you will be able to extend at with a 5 mph difference in velocity".

In this sim you can get a feel for how every aircraft flies.  I strongly encourage everyone to do it.

AKDejaVu

[wells]

For sustained turns at sea level with full internal fuel, I measured the following:

N1K2:  ~24s @ 130 mph
SpitV: ~24s @ 105 mph
Spit IX: ~25s @ 125 mph
C202: ~25s @ 150 mph
C205: ~26s @ 175 mph
109f4 & La5: ~ 28s @ 150 mph
109G2 & G6: ~ 29s @ 160 mph
P-38L: ~29s @ 175 mph
109G10: ~30s @ 170 mph
P-51D: ~31s @ 150 mph
190A8: ~ 31s @ 175 mph
F4u-1C: ~32s @ 150 mph
F4u-1D: ~33s @ 140 mph
Typhoon: ~34s @ 130 mph

[ra]

Nice work Wells, but we need to know how flap settings effect the turns.  I often crank down full flaps in a P-51, it seems to work better than just the manuever setting.  I'm not sure what the best flap settings are for other planes.

ra

[wells]

I just played around with flap settings and the only planes that seem to benefit are

F4u - 2 notches
La5 - 2 notches
N1K2 - 1 notch
P-38L - 1 notch
P-51D - 2 notches

The rest should not use any flaps at all.  It looks like this would be most important when fighting 109s as they tend to be in the same range as the 38, 51 and La5, but do not benefit from flaps.  The f4u doesn't appear to be able to overcome any other aircraft by using them and the George should use them against Spitfires.

[popeye]

Great stuff Wells.

popeye

[funked]

Thanks Wells!

That agrees with what I have observed qualitatively.

[Citabria]

wells what fuel setting did you use for the test?

I would be quite interested to see a comparison between the fighters at 25% fuel and the comparison at 100% fuel.


I think this might be more beneficial for arena play so that we could get an idea of worst and best turn performance for each plane.

[This message has been edited by Citabria (edited 05-20-2000).]

[Kirin]

From my experience in a treetop-flat-turn-fight with a P-51 I think the 109-G10 does benefit very well from flaps.

I was turning behind a P-51 on the deck at lowest speed possible; stall horn bloating; inner wing just touching the ground. I was losing angles and control over the plane. In my desperation I dropped 2 notches of flaps: and -oh wonder- the plane stabilized itself and I was gaining angles again. I could almost feel the additional lift the flaps were producing. So, if you ever get into a flat turn fight at low altitude in a G10(not very advisable) drop 2 notches of flaps - could save your day...

------------------
~Kirin~
 
JG2 "Richthofen"

[This message has been edited by Kirin (edited 05-20-2000).]

[Westy]

 I think alot of folks underestimate the turning capability of the ME-109F. I'd rate it right under the Spit V. But I've not tried the 202 yet either.

-Westy

[Citabria]

well at that slow speed flaps will not increase turn rate...

but they will make your turn radius smaller due to the flaps providing the same amount of lift at a lower airspeed thus making the stall speed lower.

turn rate will be lower than at higher speed

I believe wells presented us with turn performance of aircraft at corner airspeed which I believe is the same as best climbspeed?

[-lazs-]

Good point AK... A captured A5 was tested against a -1D and a F6F.... Does our Hog gain one turn in three against even the chubby AH 190A8 like theirs did against the A5?

Looking at arena observations or wells data... doesn't anyone think that the Hog turn performance is way off?   Is it to compensate for the evil and invincible "cannon Hog"?
lazs

[weazel]

UH-OH,I sense the "f4u is porked" campaign coming to Aces High soon. <snicker>