k-129

[FLOOB]

The nuclear missile armed k-129 sank at the "strangely precise position of 180W 40N" on March 8th 1968. Days before it sank it had stopped reporting it's bearings and gone into radio silence, but it was still being tracked by SOSUS. NATO listened as the USSR launched a large scale search. And then the destruction of the ship was heard by SOSUS. K-129 had gone silent either because it was damaged or it went rogue. The volatile soviet political situation with the rise of soviet putschist elements in 1968 and all that.

John Craven https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_P._Craven has said that he thinks it was a rogue sub destroyed because it was attempting to launch a missile in the direction of Hawaii and a secret safety measure caused the missile to self destruct. He also states that the US had been warning the USSR of growing discontent and radical elements within the soviet government. 

Other's, mainly former soviets, believe that it was deliberately rammed by an american sub so that it could be salvaged.

So, do any of you know what really happened? Because now I'm curious.

[FLOOB]

oops

[Ack-Ack]

No one knows for sure why K-129 was lost with all hands on board.  The official Soviet line at the time was the submarine exceeded its rated depth limit while snorkeling, most likely due to some failure that caused K-129 to dive and the inexperienced crew was unable to recover.

There are other theories, like a hydrogen (from the batteries) built up and wasn't properly vented, causing the explosion, another theory is that a missile somehow cooked off and exploded and yet another theory is that K-129 collided with USS Swordfish but that theory is unlikely.  Pictures of damage to USS Swordfish (bent periscope and dented sail) was highly inconsistent with a collision that would have breached the hull of another submarine would have caused far more extensive damage to Swordfish's sail.

What is interesting is that the K-129 is one of four submarines lost due to unknown causes, the other three were INS Dakar (Israeli), Minerve (French), and USS Scorpion.  What makes all four of these interesting is that all four submarines were lost in the first 5 months of 1968.

[shotgunneeley]

What is interesting is that the K-129 is one of four submarines lost due to unknown causes, the other three were INS Dakar (Israeli), Minerve (French), and USS Scorpion.  What makes all four of these interesting is that all four submarines were lost in the first 5 months of 1968.

Sounds like the plotline to "The Spy Who Loved Me". 

[wil3ur]

See Rule #14

[FLOOB]

The interesting thing about k129 is that it stopped communicating with the USSR for weeks actually not days and it had gone way off course. It went down at a launch position. I watched an interview of The John Craven and he stated matter-of-factly "we knew it had gone rogue and we knew it was up to no good". He then stated that in his opinion it destroyed its self trying to launch a missile without using the correct safeties.

Mutinies of soviet vessels by zealots has happened.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valery_Sablin

[FLOOB]

Interesting stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5cXXieMSnI

[Ack-Ack]

The interesting thing about k129 is that it stopped communicating with the USSR for weeks actually not days and it had gone way off course. It went down at a launch position. I watched an interview of The John Craven and he stated matter-of-factly "we knew it had gone rogue and we knew it was up to no good". He then stated that in his opinion it destroyed its self trying to launch a missile without using the correct safeties.

Mutinies of soviet vessels by zealots has happened.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valery_Sablin

The evidence the CIA recovered when K-129 was partially recovered kind of point towards an internal explosion, most likely one of the missiles going off when a leaky seal on the missile tube allowed sea water to come in contact with missile propellant residue.  Because of the radioactive contamination of the bow and crewmen that were recovered, the explosion most likely occurred prior to the sub reaching crushing depth.  A small hole in the conning tower gives a bit of credence to this theory. 

Or it could have been the "rogue" theory, though Craven has never explained his link to an oil slick hundreds of miles away from the sinking, nor does he reconcile the time/date of the sinking with the time/date of the recovery of radioactive oil by a research ship.

There is also the theory that the sinking of K-129 is somehow tied with the sinking of USS Scorpion and that by an informal agreement by both navies, have worked to bury the truth of what really happened to K-129 and USS Scorpion so it never comes out.

I don't think we, the public will ever know, though I do believe both the CIA/USN and Russians know what caused K-129 to sink.

[FLOOB]

The destruction of the missile tubes and the fact that the periscope was up is indicative of a missile exploding near periscope depth. Deliberately or not it was rogue, the soviets had launched a large scale search for it as it had stopped reporting for weeks before it sank. That is not an unknown. Also it had gone far off course. The americans were watching it and they new where it sank the same way they knew where to find the Thresher. Via a huge secret network of hydrophones that remained secret until it was betrayed by John Walker.

The fact that it was John Craven weighing in really is what got my attention.

Maybe it was physical failure that caused a missile explosion, maybe it was a self destruct safe guard against unauthorized launch. The location of where it happened is very coincidental at the least and I think that influenced his opinion. Of course he probably knows a lot of things that he's not going to share which may also have influenced his opinion. Or at least his motivation for stating such an opinion.

[GScholz]

It is the plot for this movie:

[FLOOB]

Just watched the movie. Not nearly as bad as the critics made it out to be.

[Gman]

Like all the singers/actors that died at age 27, 1968 is a weird year for submarines.  I've always been interested in what happened too, as a teen I read every single thing I could find on navies and particularly submarines, and I too believe that the CIA/USSR/Russia knows what happened to many of those subs due to the Sosus/etc networks, and other tech. 

I've never seen that Phantom movie, totally forgot about it, I'll have to check it out now - some great actors for sure.  Well, one at least. 

[GScholz]

The ending is a bit overdone, but it's a perfectly good B+ film. Us sub lovers can't be too picky.

Black Sea is another OK sub film. Jude Law starring.

[Brooke]

Some of the info on this incident is covered in the book "Blind Man's Bluff", an excellent book on various submarine activities.  It isn't referred to as "k-129" in the book, but is in Chapter 4:  Velvet Fist.

[FLOOB]

So who's up for some DW multiplayer?