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Author Topic: Now THIS is the fight of the century  (Read 2614 times)

Offline Saxman

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Re: Now THIS is the fight of the century
« Reply #45 on: May 04, 2016, 02:54:02 PM »
Quote from: GScholz on May 04, 2016, 09:56:06 AM
Sure. Let's ask the soldiers who are a couple of hundred feet from the enemy, perhaps in an urban environment with civilians nearby, if they want the CAS planes to drop 200 lbs precision munition or 2000 lbs free-fall bombs...

Every time the guys on the ground HAVE been asked, they've pretty universally said they want that CAS plane right down there in the weeds with them, loitering for hours, and tearing the toejam out of things with a really big gun.
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Offline Vulcan

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Re: Now THIS is the fight of the century
« Reply #46 on: May 04, 2016, 03:34:20 PM »
Quote from: Saxman on May 04, 2016, 02:54:02 PM
Every time the guys on the ground HAVE been asked, they've pretty universally said they want that CAS plane right down there in the weeds with them, loitering for hours, and tearing the toejam out of things with a really big gun.

yup, GS is so rabidly pro the f-35 I'm pretty sure he has shares in Lockheed.
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Offline RTR

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Re: Now THIS is the fight of the century
« Reply #47 on: May 04, 2016, 04:17:57 PM »
Provided they get all the bugs worked out, and it's employed properly it might do ok.

As a strike fighter ( mudmover basically) it should perfrom adequately. Of course something else is going to have to fight a way in and out of the target area for it, and it ain't as stealthy as people think. It's not, nor was ever designed to be a full blown "Stealth" aircraft. It has some stealth aspects though.

I don't see much success with it as a CAS bird, more like a long range ( or high altitude) sniper. In a CAS role 180 rounds isn't going to do much in the way of persuasion.

It's not exactly a stellar air to air fighter. All it has going for it there is BVR (if that works), head to head it's gonna suck.

Can't run, can't fight, can't hide. It's a little bitty buff with some cool toys.

just my uneducated opinion. :)

RTR
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Now THIS is the fight of the century
« Reply #48 on: May 04, 2016, 05:09:07 PM »
Quote from: RTR on May 04, 2016, 04:17:57 PM
... and it ain't as stealthy as people think. It's not, nor was ever designed to be a full blown "Stealth" aircraft. It has some stealth aspects though.

How stealthy do people think it is? The USAF has stated the F-35 is not as stealthy as the F-22, but more stealthy than the B-2. About the same as the F-117. It has the radar cross section of a metal golf ball.
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Now THIS is the fight of the century
« Reply #49 on: May 04, 2016, 05:12:06 PM »
Quote from: Vulcan on May 04, 2016, 03:34:20 PM
yup, GS is so rabidly pro the f-35 I'm pretty sure he has shares in Lockheed.

Sure, that's it. You got me. I'm defending the F-35 because you guys have such enormous influence on the F-35's future and Lockheed Martin's stock value...  :rofl
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Offline FLOOB

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Re: Now THIS is the fight of the century
« Reply #50 on: May 05, 2016, 03:59:29 AM »
See Rule #4
« Last Edit: May 05, 2016, 06:01:58 AM by Skuzzy »
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Offline FLOOB

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Re: Now THIS is the fight of the century
« Reply #51 on: May 05, 2016, 09:03:30 AM »
See Rules #2, #4
« Last Edit: May 05, 2016, 12:42:38 PM by Skuzzy »
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Offline FLOOB

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Re: Now THIS is the fight of the century
« Reply #52 on: May 05, 2016, 09:24:57 AM »
I'm joking btw.





Or am I?
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Offline rabbidrabbit

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Re: Now THIS is the fight of the century
« Reply #53 on: May 05, 2016, 09:54:15 AM »
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Offline Saxman

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Re: Now THIS is the fight of the century
« Reply #54 on: May 05, 2016, 10:55:19 AM »
Quote from: RTR on May 04, 2016, 04:17:57 PM
As a strike fighter ( mudmover basically) it should perfrom adequately. Of course something else is going to have to fight a way in and out of the target area for it, and it ain't as stealthy as people think. It's not, nor was ever designed to be a full blown "Stealth" aircraft. It has some stealth aspects though.

...

Can't run, can't fight, can't hide. It's a little bitty buff with some cool toys.

That's kind of the big thing, here. One of the arguments for the F-35 is that the A-10 is a target in contested airspace. Yet so is the F-35; it's too slow and lacks maneuverability. Most of its stores are external, as well, which means getting any appreciable loadout is going to shoot what stealth it has all to hell.
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Now THIS is the fight of the century
« Reply #55 on: May 05, 2016, 11:53:48 AM »
Again for the amnesiacs...

"The F-35 will not do close air support mission the same way the A-10 does. It will do it very differently. The A-10 was designed to be low, and slow, and close to the targets it was engaging, relatively speaking," Frank Kendall III, undersecretary of defense for acquisition, technology and logistics, told the Senate panel Tuesday. "We will not use the F-35 in the same way as the A-10.."


And I think some of you are overestimating the typical CAS loadouts of current platforms. In a full blown WWIII anti-armor role the A-10 would carry a lot of ord, but not for CAS. Typical loadout for A-10's in Afghanistan: 4xGBU-38 (500 lb bomb), Sniper XR targeting pod, 7x2.75" WP rockets, and 8xLUU-19 IR flares in an SUU-25 pod. Sometimes they add a couple of Mavericks or Hellfires. Very rarely does any conventional jet on CAS carry more than 2-4 bombs. With more ord conventional jets and the A-10 must sacrifice loiter time and maneuverability.

A-10s at Bagram AB in Afghanistan:




F-18F on CAS over Afghanistan:

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Offline GScholz

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Re: Now THIS is the fight of the century
« Reply #56 on: May 05, 2016, 12:03:37 PM »
In this vid a KC-135 refuels A-10s and F-16s over A-stan. Check out their loadouts.

« Last Edit: May 05, 2016, 12:10:01 PM by GScholz »
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Offline Zimme83

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Re: Now THIS is the fight of the century
« Reply #57 on: May 05, 2016, 01:07:40 PM »
But still: If flying missions like the ones in A-stan there is no reason to have the F-35, it just a waste of money. A-10:s do the job better for a fraction of the cost. The question is how the F-35 will do in the CAS role against a capable enemy with first class air defence.
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Now THIS is the fight of the century
« Reply #58 on: May 05, 2016, 01:43:25 PM »
We'll have to wait for the next big war to get the answer to that question. However, the A-10s typically carry four 500 lb bombs for CAS, and the F-16s in that video did the same plus two AMRAAMs. The F-35 can carry an equal weight in firepower both air-to-air and air-to-mud internally and stealthily.
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Offline Brooke

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Re: Now THIS is the fight of the century
« Reply #59 on: May 05, 2016, 04:55:56 PM »
Quote from: GScholz on May 05, 2016, 01:43:25 PM
We'll have to wait for the next big war to get the answer to that question. However, the A-10s typically carry four 500 lb bombs for CAS, and the F-16s in that video did the same plus two AMRAAMs. The F-35 can carry an equal weight in firepower both air-to-air and air-to-mud internally and stealthily.

If you look in your video at 3:45 time mark, you will see the armament that you left out.  ;)
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