AH-1 Cobra downed by manpad

[Zimme83]

I just say that the conflict is slightly more complicated than you seem to believe. But it is a topic that we are not allowed to debate here.

[GScholz]

The conflict is complicated, but I would never support someone with that kind of ideology no matter how just their fight may be.

[Randall172]

Allah AKBAR!

gotta be honest this was awesome

question though

I know that some american missiles use a sort of metal chain that a small charge expands to slice off parts it hits.

do the Russians use a clever method, other than just a large explosive charge.

[Zimme83]

A pre-fragment warhead? Yes it has. Pretty much all anti-aircraft missiles have such warheads.

[DaveBB]

It was only a couple years ago (or less) that an infamous video of a modern Hind flown by the Russians was shot down.  This was during the invasion of the Ukraine.  There was video both from the inside of the helo (either the pilot or gunner's HUD recorder) and of the MANPAD team that shot them down.  From launch to catastrophic failure of the helo is only about 3 seconds.  Not much time to react.

The last A-10 lost in combat was shot down by a MANPAD over Baghdad.  The A-10 may have been a resilient plane against shrapnel from Soviet era SAMs, but these little MANPADs are extremely lethal.

[Zimme83]

Blast are also direced so it creates a shot gun effect.

But the blast range is not that big, missile can detonate fairly Close and still not inflict enough damage,
From Syria: Mi-8 has a Close call, that Missile is really Close but helo flies away:

[Serenity]

See Rule #6

[Zimme83]

Probably because they lived there from the beginning, some of the rebel hold areas are only a few miles across and it doesnt matter too much were the kids are, the barrel bombs land were they land..

[GScholz]

See Rule #6

[Zimme83]

And the camera is prob not were the guys firing the missile are. its impossible to say if they are Close or not. But most likely are they there because they have nowere else to go sadly.

[Gman]

Gscholz and I had another thread going a couple years ago regarding Hinds surviving manpads hits - the ratio if very much in the Hinds favor so far as videos out there, there are only 1 or 2 out there of them going down from manpads, while there are many, many of them surviving.

Manpads are very deadly, and simple - the crew in the OP video remembered to count down the seeker cooling, but completely forgot to super elevate the tube just prior to hitting the launch trigger.  It didn't matter, it still worked, even with a major mistake in the firing cycle.  That says quite a bit on its own.

These things are just going to get more lethal - as I said, this particular weapon is 30+ years old most likely.  Newer seekers, rocket motors (low to no smoke and much faster acceleration), and especially better warheads - nothing that flies is truly safe.  Of course, countermeasure systems have come a long way, vs both radar and IR sams, and AAA detection systems too. 

[Zimme83]

The Hind has a lot of armor, if it can stop a .50 cal round it should be able to withstand shrapnel from a Missile pretty good as well. The Hind is like a flying APC. it's not the most modern attack helo but it sure can take a lot of beating.

[GScholz]

The kill vehicle of older SAM systems typically miss the target by several yards relying on fragmentation damage to do the job. The Hind only has a few vulnerable areas to the kind of light fragmentation a MANPAD can produce, mainly the rotors. Of all the videos I've seen on Hinds getting shot by MANPADs I think only one went down. Most of the videos showing Hinds getting blown out of the sky actually show target drones made to look like Hinds. Modern MANPADs are much more accurate, and more likely to score a direct hit. While a heavily armored gunship like the Hind can handle fragmentation damage, no realistic amount of armor will stop a 20 lb supersonic projectile.

[Zimme83]

http://m.voanews.com/a/missile-attack-helicopter-rocks-turkish-army/3334320.html

Adding to Turkish military concerns is the apparent failure of the helicopter’s defense system, said analyst Metehan Demir, a former Turkish military pilot.

"The downed helicopter was not alone during the operation," Demir said. "There was another helicopter just behind the helicopter, and this helicopter was not warned by the defense system that the missile was coming. This is also very strange, which means it looks like the system was very new used by the PKK, and there could be more similar missiles in the hands of the PKK."

That's an interesting quote..

[GScholz]

It was an Igla, so we're talking about a 20-30 year old system. However, small IR missiles are very difficult to pick up regardless. We are quickly entering into an era where the survivability of slow, low flying aircraft is questionable. Even in low intensity conflicts against irregular forces. The days when you could shove 20 guys into a Chinook and fly them into combat are most certainly over.