AH-1 Cobra downed by manpad

[Serenity]

http://m.voanews.com/a/missile-attack-helicopter-rocks-turkish-army/3334320.html

That's an interesting quote..

If you ever get a look at the gripe sheet for American aircraft... Even here in the military capital of the world, we're in a constant uphill battle to keep essential equipment running in the aircraft. I would bet my left nut that IF that aircraft was equipped with something that could have provided a warning, it was broken that day...

We can't even keep our oxygen system working flawlessly, I'd bet anti-SAM stuff is even more finnicky...

[Zimme83]

I doubt that a missile warning would have changed the outcome, the missile flew for like 3 seconds, there was no time for the crew to do anything.

[GScholz]

Anti-MANPAD systems are typically fully automatic due to the short engagement time.

[kilo2]

Looks like an SA16/18 Gimlet or the Chinese copy, QW-2.  Could be a Grom too perhaps.

Brutal, I wonder why the Cobras don't have that whizzy missile defense system, or if it did, why it didn't work.  The Gimlet/QW2 isn't the most current missile, by far, yet was pretty effective here, and in other vids too.  The operator didn't elevate the missile tube like he's supposed to either before firing, had it pointed directly at the target, which is exactly how you're not supposed to do it.

There are so many different active and passive anti-IR/Sam systems out there now too, missile approach warning systems too.  Sure are a lot of vids on YT and elsewhere showing helos and low alt planes getting smucked out of the sky though, mostly in Libya, Syria, and Ukraine, but elsewhere too.  I've never seen one where the missile was spoofed - maybe they just don't upload those films.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrared_countermeasure#Directional_IRCM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missile_Approach_Warning

Will the pilots on the cobra hear or know when they are being targeted by the launcher.

[GScholz]

Nope. Totally passive seeker. The first warning would be the pilots or a sensor system spotting the actual missile in flight a few seconds away.

[kilo2]

Nope. Totally passive seeker. The first warning would be the pilots or a sensor system spotting the actual missile in flight a few seconds away.

That sucks. No time to react.

[GScholz]

A sensor would typically pick up the rocket motor's heat plume, but we're still talking about 10 seconds or less before interception at the missile's longest range.

[DaveBB]

Here are the two videos I was referring to of the MI-24 shot down over the Ukraine.  One is from the interior of the Hind, the other is from the MANPAD team.  This definitely illustrates how quick and lethal they are

Interior:

Exterior:

On second thought, I believe these are two separate MI-24 shoot downs. 

[GScholz]

They are. The Armenian Hind is the only one I've seen video of being shot down by a MANPAD. The Ukrainian may have been hit by a MANPAD, but the Russian backed secessionists also possess larger SAM systems and AAA.

[Gman]

Like I said earlier, last year Gscholz and I had a thread with piles of vids of MI24s taking hits and surviving, and only did I ever find 1, the above, showing a clean kill with a Manpads vs the Hind.

Read the stuff I linked earlier about missile approach warning and other defensive systems those of you asking about it - passive IR seekers missiles until recently have been a weapon that wasn't detectable really other than visually, but tech now, can detect them under many conditions, not all unfortunately, and there is a pile of different IR passive and active ECM systems used to defeat the incoming IR round.  Everything from IR jammers to systems that use an active laser to flash the seeker and screw it up. 

As seen from this video in the OP, the system has very, very little time to react - I figured it would have such a defensive system, as Serenity and others have said before, stuff breaks, often, or just fails to work as optimally as it does in the lab or in tests/etc.  2 or 3 seconds isn't much time for any kind of a defensive system to work - even just an alert, no pilot could have reacted quickly enough to pop out flares or activate a system manually there, just not enough time.  Again, 30+ year old system too, the missile used.  Imagine how much more lethal the newer stuff is, and near future manpads weapons.  Pretty dangerous vs any time of low flying aircraft, but especially the helos and prop planes down low. 

[save]

in Afganistan conflict Mi-24 pilots reported, given time enough, should turn into the missile path, because the front is the best armoured part of the airframe.
Missiles nowadays are better, faster and give a much better chance of downing instead of hurting the helicopter.

[Zimme83]

The Russians in A-stan also developed the tactic to use the terrain for cover and pop flares and were able to handle the threat from Stingers rather well, better than what is common beliefs. Manpads is no wonder weapon but adaption is needed to minimize the threat.

But the cobra flew like it was on an exercise...

[Mister Fork]

What I don't understand, why destroy an aircraft and the pilots?  Would it be better to cripple a helicopter/plane, force it to crash land, and injure the crew?  That takes waaaay more resources to deal with than someone who is just dead and the aircraft just a smoking ruin.  The goal of any portable  MANPAD should be to damage an aircraft... no?

Typical Russian hammer approach to weapons.

[Zimme83]

I would say no, damage the plane beyond repair should be priority since they are very expensive and takes time to replace. Air crew are also very valuable and hard to replace so you want them out definitely. For other weapon systems wounding rather than killing is preferable since an injured grunt need a lot more resources than a dead one.

But for air crafts first priority is to make sure neither them or the crew ever flies again, how you do it is secondary.

[GScholz]

Like I said earlier, last year Gscholz and I had a thread with piles of vids of MI24s taking hits and surviving, and only did I ever find 1, the above, showing a clean kill with a Manpads vs the Hind.

Read the stuff I linked earlier about missile approach warning and other defensive systems those of you asking about it - passive IR seekers missiles until recently have been a weapon that wasn't detectable really other than visually, but tech now, can detect them under many conditions, not all unfortunately, and there is a pile of different IR passive and active ECM systems used to defeat the incoming IR round.  Everything from IR jammers to systems that use an active laser to flash the seeker and screw it up. 

As seen from this video in the OP, the system has very, very little time to react - I figured it would have such a defensive system, as Serenity and others have said before, stuff breaks, often, or just fails to work as optimally as it does in the lab or in tests/etc.  2 or 3 seconds isn't much time for any kind of a defensive system to work - even just an alert, no pilot could have reacted quickly enough to pop out flares or activate a system manually there, just not enough time.  Again, 30+ year old system too, the missile used.  Imagine how much more lethal the newer stuff is, and near future manpads weapons.  Pretty dangerous vs any time of low flying aircraft, but especially the helos and prop planes down low.

I remember that thread. Was pretty good if memory serves me. The newest MANPAD in Russian service is the Verba. Essentially an upgraded Igla with a three separate optical seekers to defeat flares and lasers. To spoof it you'd have to decoy/jam/blind the missile in the low-IR, medium-IR and ultraviolet spectrum at the same time.