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Author Topic: Erich Rudorffer  (Read 14189 times)

Offline FESS67

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Re: Erich Rudorffer
« Reply #45 on: May 21, 2016, 06:08:37 PM »
Quote from: guncrasher on May 21, 2016, 06:02:53 PM
and yet we are still putting them on trial for the atrocities they committed 70 years ago.  point is this is a bb.  you can put whoever you want here and call him a hero.  while others have a right to disagree.


semp

We are not defending those individuals who committed war crimes.  That is a very separate issue.
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Offline FLOOB

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Re: Erich Rudorffer
« Reply #46 on: May 21, 2016, 06:35:56 PM »
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Offline FLOOB

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Re: Erich Rudorffer
« Reply #47 on: May 21, 2016, 06:36:46 PM »
Did Erich Rudorffer fly in the german resistance air force?
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Offline guncrasher

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Re: Erich Rudorffer
« Reply #48 on: May 21, 2016, 07:42:29 PM »
Quote from: FESS67 on May 21, 2016, 06:08:37 PM
We are not defending those individuals who committed war crimes.  That is a very separate issue.

actually i was pointing out to somebody that posted that after 70 years we should forgive and forget.


semp
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you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline GScholz

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Re: Erich Rudorffer
« Reply #49 on: May 22, 2016, 12:44:35 AM »
WWII war criminals are still being looked for sure, but how many Luftwaffe officers have ever been convinced of war crimes? Two. Hermann Göring and Erhard Milch, but for their involvement in the Holocaust, not for anything the Luftwaffe did. Many of the Luftwaffe's top surviving people became officers in the West German Air Force after the war, and worked alongside their former enemies in NATO. People like Erich Hartmann and Gunther Rall.

Maybe Semp's Jewish and lost people in the Shoah, I don't know, but his hatred seems irrational to me.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2016, 12:53:39 AM by GScholz »
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Offline morfiend

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Re: Erich Rudorffer
« Reply #50 on: May 22, 2016, 01:48:22 AM »
Quote from: guncrasher on May 21, 2016, 07:42:29 PM
actually i was pointing out to somebody that posted that after 70 years we should forgive and forget.


semp



  Maybe you should read what I said? :rolleyes:


  I never mentioned heroes and I did say LEST we forget not to forgive and forget.  But it's ok you can put words in my mouth!


  It was over 70 years ago,most have past and the rest are very close to passing,I dont know about you but I was taught to respect my elders. I have had the pleasure to meet players on both sides and while I dont agree with what was trying to be done I can still respect the men who fought and died,or lived.


   If you cant see past this then I feel sorry for you.




    :salute
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Offline zack1234

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Re: Erich Rudorffer
« Reply #51 on: May 22, 2016, 04:08:09 AM »
Quote from: morfiend on May 21, 2016, 05:33:17 PM

  My side,it allows me to respect those that fought,regardless of which side the fought!

  It was over 70 years ago,most have past or are close to it,all should be respected.....Lest we forget!



    :salute

It's 70 years on and they are starting it again in that part of the Europe :old:

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Offline nrshida

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Re: Erich Rudorffer
« Reply #52 on: May 22, 2016, 04:45:20 AM »
Quote from: JOACH1M on May 22, 2016, 02:56:02 AM
God forbid someone who is responsible for pretecting his family and friends against his will...  :confused:

A defence Joe, which would not have been necessary had Nazi Germany not decided to invade and subjugate all of Europe from the channel to the Volga for the selfish benefit of the German Volk and the establisment of a vicious and murderous political movement, is the subtle point which ought not to be suppressed.

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Offline GScholz

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Re: Erich Rudorffer
« Reply #53 on: May 22, 2016, 04:49:38 AM »
Guilt by association fallacy.
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Offline nrshida

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Re: Erich Rudorffer
« Reply #54 on: May 22, 2016, 05:03:13 AM »
Quote from: GScholz on May 22, 2016, 04:49:38 AM
Guilt by association fallacy.

Nonsense. There's no comparison implied at all just context. I don't know anything about Erich Rudorffer. He could have been a brave and moralistic gentleman for all I know, like I consider H.J. Marseille to have been, or he could have been a to-the-core-Nazi like Rudel. I do not discount brave or noble acts by German pilots (or French pilots, Japanese pilots...). It's irrelevant. Supressing the context however would make this forum a complete cacka-hole Narziefest like the comments section of some YouTube vids. Which is fine, but I certainly for one won't hang around for that.

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Offline GScholz

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Re: Erich Rudorffer
« Reply #55 on: May 22, 2016, 05:36:32 AM »
Should we then also make the "subtle point" of mentioning the sordid past of the British Empire every time we talk about an RAF pilot and what he fought for? Nonsense indeed. No man is responsible for any actions but his own.
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Offline nrshida

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Re: Erich Rudorffer
« Reply #56 on: May 22, 2016, 05:43:18 AM »
Quote from: GScholz on May 22, 2016, 05:36:32 AM
Should we then also make the "subtle point" of mentioning the sordid past of the British Empire every time we talk about an RAF pilot and what he fought for? Nonsense indeed. No man is responsible for any actions but his own.

Are you about to invoke the Boer War Concentration camp logical fallacy?  :)

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Offline GScholz

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Re: Erich Rudorffer
« Reply #57 on: May 22, 2016, 06:06:01 AM »
No. However, I will point out that Great Britain has had a continuous government since 1703 and that government, currently led by Cameron, is both legally and morally responsible for everything Great Britain has done in the last four centuries. Just like the German government is held legally and morally responsible, even for what the Nazis did, and has had to make reparations to just about everyone involved. And the American government is held responsible for what they did back in the day.

Should we then point out all this whenever we discuss one soldier and his achievements? Germany and Russia is high on the list, but it is hard to think of a country that has caused more suffering and injustice in the world than Great Britain.
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Offline zack1234

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Re: Erich Rudorffer
« Reply #58 on: May 22, 2016, 06:20:46 AM »
We will see how the Germans behave in 30 years time when the forthcoming "Transatlantic America EU Trade deal" comes to fruition :old:

Everyone scratching their heads :rofl


The yanks will reduce the German workers inflated wages to that of Mexico.

Britain is awesome so was Churchill.

Germany lost both wars because they were not good enough :old:

Jockym started this thread because he can't decide if he is a American or German :old:
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Erich Rudorffer
« Reply #59 on: May 22, 2016, 06:26:13 AM »
The Jews suffered the most under the Nazi regime, but it's fascinating to see how Israelis today view some of the... "moral ambiguity" shall we say, of WWII.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvXfnulloZM&feature=youtu.be&t=670
« Last Edit: May 22, 2016, 06:34:42 AM by GScholz »
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