This scenario needs a lot of work

[Biggamer]

i was a ju88 with torps and i was never touched by a fighter going into the boat it was very well planned and the execution of the plan was even better.  Just my 2 cent 

[Nefarious]

Taking a look at the suggestions here and planning for Frame 2 Objectives, which will be out sometime today.

[Bannor]

Bannor praised the raid on 128 but despite the super efforts of everybody involved it was a fiasco.

B25s slaughtered for zero return.  Mossies and Typhs required to dive into ack to attack and nowhere to run afterward.
Guys didn't have a hope of returning from that.
The plane types aren't a mismatch IMHO.  The tasks are.

After seeing the logs I see your point. They Typhoons were scouted but still managed to get in and hit the field fairly well. There was a squad at the field defending while we were almost 1 full sector away to the west. Before 1/2 of us got back we had the report on the B25s and still had alt, so we turned back to intercept. After a few passes I had a lone spit tenaciously on my 6 all the way back to the field so I was a little pre-occupied to notice anything else for a bit.
The attack was something I envisioned somewhat, with a Jabo wing coming in from the North and Bombers with Spit escorts coming in from the west. The spits tangled with our scouts and were behind the bombers when the rest of us started with the intercept. I think if they were more out in front it might have saved a few for the drop. Hard to say when things start happening though. 

[swareiam]

The AKs had a great time. Our Spit IXs were slaughtered over A128. But our Typhoons paid back in full. It was a great mission.

Not really a chance of recovery to a land base in England; way to far to go home. We recovered to C55 minutes before it was sunk by BF110s.

Fun frame. 

[1Cane]

A delay in the launch of the typhoons would have made a big difference.  North of the objective we were scouted and preceded to 128.  I made  two attacks before we were told to withdraw.  The fur ball that happened north of 128 was difficult to disengage from with the squad fighting pretty good as a unit.  I stayed until bingo ammo.  I fled the scene noe but came up about 200 yards short of landing on the CV.
A little coordination or planning for time on target would have made it much greater difference for the Allied effort.

[Dantoo]

Cane the idea was generally for the Typh mission to get there ahead of the high mossies and B25s.  It wasn't supposed to be an all arrive at the same minute deal.
Bannor's report shows how near it went to working despite the lanes of travel for us being so constricted that a blind baby could draw out our ingress paths.

The problem with distances to get home to friendly fields from so deep over the continent, that you had to land Typhoons on a CV, illustrates vividly a difference in the tasking.

The Axis were able to pre-plan and execute a second strike for their Jabos while the Allied group were landing their's on CVs. 

[Devil 505]

Cane the idea was generally for the Typh mission to get there ahead of the high mossies and B25s.  It wasn't supposed to be an all arrive at the same minute deal.
Bannor's report shows how near it went to working despite the lanes of travel for us being so constricted that a blind baby could draw out our ingress paths.

The problem with distances to get home to friendly fields from so deep over the continent, that you had to land Typhoons on a CV, illustrates vividly a difference in the tasking.

The Axis were able to pre-plan and execute a second strike for their Jabos while the Allied group were landing their's on CVs.

Yes, this is a problem. Ideally, the distances between take-off bases and targets will be balanced between the sides. Not necessarily all being close enough to mount second strikes, but at least equal amounts per side.

In my opinion, poor objective selection is a major contributor of the FSO population decline over the last year+. Too often, objectives are either too close and a majority of players are dead before T+45 or so far away that action after T+60 is impossible. Not enough players are getting their 2 hours worth. 

[Dantoo]

Devil I think your second para sums up my views very well.  I know that both of us love the opportunity to keep going to the bitter end and beyond, but I also pay respect to the guys who have to get up and work the next day and I have so much respect for and debt to the people that put these things together! 

(I also have a theory that seems good for the last 6 months - whatever side I am on gets wiped out in the first hour!)   

[Joker312]

Looks like Nef has taken everyone's suggestions into consideration and changed 3 parameters for frame 3.

Hopefully it has the desired effect.

<S>

[Nefarious]

Yes, this is a problem. Ideally, the distances between take-off bases and targets will be balanced between the sides. Not necessarily all being close enough to mount second strikes, but at least equal amounts per side.

In my opinion, poor objective selection is a major contributor of the FSO population decline over the last year+. Too often, objectives are either too close and a majority of players are dead before T+45 or so far away that action after T+60 is impossible. Not enough players are getting their 2 hours worth. 

Do you have a suggestion or examples for good distances between objectives?

In the end, the CIC and his squads are what determines the actual flight times between objectives. The CM can only separate them by miles on map. A 30 minute direct flight at 20K, might be a T+59 strike to one CIC while another CIC might make it a 15 minute NOE flight.

This is my first FSO in over a year I think, I tried to keep the objectives close together for second strikes. The Axis had the advantage that they could rearm and refuel close to both their attack and defense objectives, while the Allies were only close to their defense objectives. A definite advantage for the Axis, that has been corrected for frames 2 and 3.

Another thing that keeps popping in FSO conversation is radar gaps and coverage. Is that something that needs to be revisited for FSO?

[Drano]

Distances or not, as one of the 412th defenders @128 I was quite surprised at how fast the allied strike got over there. I'd expected something at least sometime after the dawn hours but as it was the sky had hardly begun to get light when the Tiffs were spotted just outside the dar ring. The B-25s were spotted a few minutes later about where we thought they might be but their high escorts decended unseen out of the dark skies on our scouts. They never saw them. Clearly the darkness was part of the allied plan and it worked out to the point of their jabos at least getting significant damage on 128. But then again, as Dantoo and others have said, the routes of ingress weren't exactly difficult to figure out. On a different map, with easier routes in, the attackers might have never been seen before they hit their targets.

That said I've long been a detractor of night in the game. It's fun to take off, but fighting in the dark with short icons is just a straight up joke. These are all daylight aircraft after all.

And all THAT said my frame ended in broad daylight as I was looking down for some ships. Spits nailed me from above. Never saw them either hehe! Wakey wakey, Drano!

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[Joker312]

opps meant Frame 2 in my previous post.

[1Cane]

I still believe the typhoon launches should have been held for 5 mins.  I show the typhoons hitting 128 at 22.31 the B25s and mossies came under attack at 22.38 that 7 minutes allowed the axis to reset for the next attack.  We were dealt with as individual attacks rather than a coordinated attack by a large unit.

I never said that we should hit the target at the same time.  But I do think before launch we should have the time on target for all attackers and be held to it.

[Joker312]

I had fun until the very end when I had 6 190s chasing me and I cartwheeled into the water.  Got a ditch though. 

 

I was one of the 190's in the area of your demise and as I reviewed the film I was amazed that you got a ditch out of that. You faceplanted, half the aircraft disappeared under water!!!

You guys came in over our group of 190's searching for the ships in that grid. We were completely surprised by your appearance:)

Very enjoyable 1st Frame.

<S> to all.

[j500ss]

IDK, anymore when these things like this come up and folks get into what they see as the nuts and bolts of it all I just get the same feeling pretty much everytime........  Many it seems want the easy way, or the definite advantage.

Now one cannot argue the disparity between the object points, when I saw that I was    Both sides should probably have had 1 land base target, and 1 TF to hit.

I think the plane set favors the Allies, but I would not say by a huge margin. 

In the end, my thoughts are with Jaeger1......  Planning!!   I say that based on the mission we led.   We were assigned to hit TF 51.

We launched with 8 formations of JU-88's, and 9 escorts..........  Read that again if you have to.   I had 1 scout to use to find the TF, which I knew was going to be in the northern part of it's assigned sector.

5 of the formations went into target sector at 12k, the 3 JU's with torps ran a geometry run on the waves.   The CV was hit with torps and sunk.   He made it into target untouched by enemy fighters, there were simply none near him.  I had maybe 3 on me, and the 3rd was shot down well before ack from the TF started firing at him.

The Cruiser was dive bombed, as were 1 or 2 DD's.   We had 2 RTB.

So 3 JU-88's drew all the cover for that TF down to the deck?  Because our 10k guys reported no fighters at their alt.   

I hate to say it, and no offence to anyone out there, but we simply had no business pulling that one off. 

HUGE Kudos to the 68th and Menacing Ferrets for their role as escorts, and to MachNix ( 1841 Squadron) for locating the TF. 

Maybe that was the mission on the allied side that was light pilots?

Did everyone understand the 2 TF's were HIGH priority targets?  What didn't get sunk counted as points for the Allies, you all understood that correct?  So there was a great incentive to defend them well.......  VERY WELL!!

Maybe I totally misunderstood that and I am wrong?  Let me know if I am.

Now in the upcoming frame we get to hit a city strat, and defend one........ Should be interesting to see if, and how the dynamics change in a weeks time.

Cic's will have to look a little harder at plane, and squad assignments, some squads are going to most likely pull 2 frames in bombers, heck maybe 3 now.   

I would not expect second strikes in frame 2, with points tightening up as they will, escorts will need to concentrate on getting surviving buffs home, because going into a city strat at low alt with AAA set to .4 is basically a suicide run so I would count low JABO's out, but that's me.

In the end I cannot speak for our escorts, or scout for that matter, but we had fun.  We were successful in our role in frame 1 and that's what matters to us

 
jdog
G3-MF