This scenario needs a lot of work

[Viper61]

Not liking this one.  CMs need to change the following:

   Plane set favors the AXIS more than just a little, adjust it - Frame 1 proves this
   4 targets (2 defend 2 to attack) to many for the size of the FSO turn out - Have talked about this for the last 6-9 months - adjust this to 2 (defend 1 and attack 1) - don't have enough pilots to cover scouts or deception or sweeps - ends up just putting everyone one together (15 AC) and waiting for an attack.
   Plane values - Bombers are worth so little vs the boats that the AXIS could lose 50 X JU88's and still gain points as long as they sank the boat - adjust point values of the planes so that it takes away the suicidal attacks

  I don't care to be a historical reenactor - I know who lost the battle already - I want a fair fight and not getting it here, might as well go to the MA

Any you know this effects turn out, right?

[Devil 505]

You have Mossies and  a ton of Spit9's this plane set does not favor the Axis - even a little.

But you may be on point with the target values.

[captain1ma]

gee, no one seemed upset last month when the allies wiped the axis out? there were only 12 planes or so left after the first hour. now the tables get turned a little and its a problem? I do agree that the the point setting are off some, but as for the rest of it, I attribute it to a well executed plan.

[Bannor]

The typhoons got into 128 pretty fast and stirred up quite a bit of damage. Got a report of B25's coming in with a mighty fine escort of Spit IX's and a few mossies mixed in. I thought they did a pretty good job. 

[FBDragon]

I guess he wants F86's and axis to fly He112's!!!

[Dantoo]

Look, the only thing that could, perhaps should, be readjusted is the target positions. The Allied targets are well inland which because of base flashing coverage makes it easy to cover every approach.  Recovering to friendly bases from over France vs from over der Kanal isn't even a contest.

The distance from start bases to the Allied targets also makes it hard to work in the required mix of planes.

Bannor praised the raid on 128 but despite the super efforts of everybody involved it was a fiasco.

B25s slaughtered for zero return.  Mossies and Typhs required to dive into ack to attack and nowhere to run afterward.
Guys didn't have a hope of returning from that.
The plane types aren't a mismatch IMHO.  The tasks are.


Simple suggestion:
1. Move the Allied targets to the coast and a lot more people will get home to extend the fun.

2. Move the Axis targets inland and then at least both sides will be manfully slaughtered in the first hour.

[Nefarious]

Outside of Objects, Allies shot down more aircraft. Logs look pretty even with the exception of objects, which for the Axis are Ship objects.

[Nefarious]

The Allies showed on the light end as well. The sides were split even, but the Allies showed up with 20 less. With 2 targets to attack and two to defend you should have about 25 pilots per side per objective with 100 per side. So the desired fight per objective should be 25vs25.

Actually it was 102 to 88 Axis over Allies. A 14 pilot difference.

[Nefarious]

Look, the only thing that could, perhaps should, be readjusted is the target positions. The Allied targets are well inland which because of base flashing coverage makes it easy to cover every approach.  Recovering to friendly bases from over France vs from over der Kanal isn't even a contest.

The distance from start bases to the Allied targets also makes it hard to work in the required mix of planes.

Bannor praised the raid on 128 but despite the super efforts of everybody involved it was a fiasco.

B25s slaughtered for zero return.  Mossies and Typhs required to dive into ack to attack and nowhere to run afterward.
Guys didn't have a hope of returning from that.
The plane types aren't a mismatch IMHO.  The tasks are.


Simple suggestion:
1. Move the Allied targets to the coast and a lot more people will get home to extend the fun.

2. Move the Axis targets inland and then at least both sides will be manfully slaughtered in the first hour.

The Allied Ships were located right off the coast from Allied Airfields, it was no easy flight from the Axis fields which most were further inland than the Allied fields.

The Axis 2nd wave sunk as many ships as the 1st wave, I think we might be over analyzing this FSO too early.

[waystin2]

I must be the lone idiot.  I had fun and flew my Hurricane to within 10 minutes before the end of frame and managed to lose control and auger while under attack by two enemy cons.  All of my internal fuel tanks were shot out.  I was literally flying off gas in my droppers only.  Crazy fun.

[Zoney]

^This idiot is right with that idiot^

What a ball, and it lasted right up to the 2 hour mark <S>

[branch37]

The Axis Ju88s that attacked C55 were scouted and attacked before they even left France.  By the time they reached the fleet there were only 1 or 2 formations left, of which only one scored a hit on the CV.  To my knowledge none survived.  What sunk the task group was a mixed strike of 109s, 190 JABOs, and 110 JABOs, which is nearly impossible to stop.   

[branch37]

I had fun until the very end when I had 6 190s chasing me and I cartwheeled into the water.  Got a ditch though. 

[Dantoo]

The Allied Ships were located right off the coast from Allied Airfields, it was no easy flight from the Axis fields which most were further inland than the Allied fields.

The Axis 2nd wave sunk as many ships as the 1st wave, I think we might be over analyzing this FSO too early.

I also survived to the end and I didn't say I didn't enjoy my own participation.  I was simply responding to the original post.  I don't agree with it's viewpoint, but since the thread is likely to extend into the normal pattern of these things, I just threw out a view that would bring it back into balance.

It's not how far from the home base that was my point.  It is the approach channels to the target + the amount of hostile territory that has to be overflown in and out.
Just make the targets equivalent in difficulty to approach and leave.
No ships next time, make the targets inland as well and my criticism ends.

[captain1ma]

i don't normally do this but i'm going to so the allies can learn something.

my plan was to send in planes to the carriers, first wave JU88's 5 high, with regular ords, 3 low with torps.
we gave them to larger squads, that had enough guys to escort themselves plus an escort or 2.

because we figured that the carriers would be heavily defended we figured we'd lose most of them.
we also figured that since the one carrier was close to the shore, it would be easily defended by fighters.

now we had everyone in 190's and 110 carry bombs, but drop them on the runway. we wanted a second wave.
we gave our biggest squads defense of the bases hoping most of them would survive and we gave most them 190's.

the plan was to probably lose most of the first wave, the allies get somewhat disorganized.  the defensive groups would do the best
they could, and survivors would rearm.

all survivors loaded bombs, and headed for the boats to kill whatever was left over.

well apparently this was a pretty good strategy, because we wiped out all the boats, there were still plenty of defenders around, but they
were so spread out they were useless and we came in with numbers.

it was probably the best FSO ive ever been involved in. it was exciting to the end!

Great job by the defenders and a Big <S> to my 2 premier squads, JG11 and the 412.

maybe the allies should learn what squads and  planes people are good in, and use them to their strengths. because of the points involved, I would've gone light on the base attacks, and heavily defended the carriers, that might have changed things for the allies.