Mi24 shoot down video from this week in Syria

[Gman]

Russian Mi24P - Gscholz and I had a thread going a couple years back about just how rare it was for the Mi24 to get shot down, so few if any vids back then of it actually going down, even after taking manpads hits - I think there were 3 or 4 videos in that thread of the Mi24 surviving manpads and making it out of the video at least.

This one - I can't tell if the first flashes are the Mi24 launching its own weapons, then taking a hit to the tail, or if all the flashes are from incoming rounds hitting, and the last one was just the largest warhead/flash, or what.  Also don't see a missile trail at all, could be AAA, and I don't read Russian or Dirkstanian in the comments to see what's being said.  As per the previous thread mentioned, it was agreed by all that the Mi24 is one tough bird, and even looking closely at this video, the tail was still intact pretty much, looks like just the tail rotor got chopped, not much else.

[GScholz]

Definitively multiple hits of some kind of explosive projectile. Two hits amidships and one at the very end of the fuselage. Almost looked like a proximity detonation. Then a hit on the tail rotor. At 0:18 the tail boom is silhouetted against the bright sky and is clearly intact. A small MANPAD might not have been visible since the video is of such low quality, but there were three more hits from some other weapon and a heat seeker is not very likely to strike the tail rotor, unless it's attacking from directly astern. There were no visible tracers either. Difficult to say what the hell got that Hind, but the rotor system is the Achilles heel of all helicopters, no matter how heavily armored the rest may be.

[Gman]

That's what I thought as well - proximity fused rounds from maybe a 37 or something - or perhaps combined AAA, they often do that, have their 57mm batteries protected by smaller 20mm guns.  Maybe 20mm impacts on the side there that I thought could have been rocket pod launches too from the Hind, and then a very large 37, 40mm, or even 57mm hit right on the tail, because that was a rather large explosion, way too big for 20mm fire, but a bit smaller than typical missiles I've seen.

Either way, Achilles heel of any chopper, even the Hind, but like the video showed, pretty intact tail boom still - remember the AH1 in the recent vid the missile warhead chopped that tail in two like a knife on a cutting board.

[GScholz]

Yes it hit just aft of the turboshaft exhaust were you would expect it to hit. The Russian rockets produce a lot of dark smoke, so I don't think it was the Hind's own weapons creating the first flashes. Also the flashes moved further aft with each hit, the third one at the very end of the fuselage where no weapon would be on a Hind.

As for the youtube comments the Durkadurkastani was just a lot of "God cornered the Alawites and the Russians in hell, God willing," and other BS. At least according to google translate.

[GScholz]

Actually... After watching it repeatedly I think I've come to the conclusion that it is a single large caliber autocannon. The first two hits are against armor and are partially hidden from the camera by the Hind's wings and weapon pods, but the first flash is clearly large enough that it's visible both in front of and behind the wings. The last hit is not actually bigger than the three that precedes it. If you look closely there is a secondary fire/explosion creating most of the smoke and fire. The round probably hit the rotor hub assembly itself and blew up a oil reservoir or line. You can see the tip of the tail fin burning for half a second or so after the actual hit, and some debris falling of the tail is also on fire creating that huge puff of smoke.

[Vulcan]

I disagree, the smaller flashes look like rockets firing from the wings. First one looks like from both sides (flash is a U shape), then right, then left which creates the illusion of hits moving back. These all have 'trails' of smoke that look like rocket trails, whereas the tail hit creates a ball of smoke.

I actually even question whether it was shot down or a weapons malfunction. You can see something different in the 2nd rocket salvo.

edit: google search seems to indicate it was the 3rd rocket misfiring.

[GScholz]

I don't think so. This is what a rocket firing Hind looks like (also from Syria):

[Serenity]

Position and timing of those first flashes leads me to call rocket launches. They're nicely sequenced, slower than I would expect autocannon impacts, but too well sequenced to include autocannon misses in between. And I DO see what looks like the smoke trails. That being said, I don't think rocket misfire, because that last blast is very clearly an explosion far astern of the pods.

[GScholz]

How would a rocket misfire take out the tail rotor anyway. Ground crew loaded the rocket backwards lol.

[GScholz]

It can't be rockets. The Russian rockets make much more smoke than that. But if it is a Mi-24P it could be the gunship's own cannon armament causing the initial two flashes. Watch this video for proof of both points:

[GScholz]

Found this:

"The Russian Defense Ministry said Saturday that Daesh terrorists shot down a helicopter near Syria’s Palmyra, killing two Russian military instructor pilots.

    On July 8, Russian military instructor pilots conducted a test flight of a Syrian Mi-25 helicopter (export version of the Mi-24 helicopter), when it received a request from the Syrian authorities to carry out airstrikes against a large group of Daesh terrorists advancing to the east of Palmyra, the ministry said.

    "The crew received a request from the Syrian unit’s command to strike the advancing fighters. The captain, Ryastudmuffinat Khabibulin, made a decision to attack the terrorists. The skillful actions of the Russian crew thwarted the terrorists’ advance.

    When the helicopter’s ammunition was spent and it changed its course to the opposite direction, it was shot down by terrorists from the ground and crashed in an area controlled by the Syrian government army. The helicopter’s crew was killed."


There is also speculation that it was a friendly fire incident and that the Hind was hit by fire from the trailing Hind...

[Vulcan]

I don't think so. This is what a rocket firing Hind looks like (also from Syria):

Single vs salvo, back lighting is different, ambient lighting is different, footage quality is way more grainier. You can see the smoke plumes from the rocket launches (compare them with the explosion smoke). The first launch flash is U shaped, ie a flash from each side of the fuselage - which would prohibit it from being a round impact on the fuselage.

[GScholz]

Russian rockets still produce way more smoke than what we see in the video. And the smoke is black, not white. No lighting or video issue can explain why we don't see the rocket smoke in front of the Hind if we can see the smoke behind it.

[Vulcan]

3 plumes, all start with a dark puff of smoke, 3rd one has sometghing odd about it. The smoke plumes are long and match the shape of the photos you posted.



The tail explosion. As you can see it is a round explosion, not a plume. Plume = rocket.

I didn't know you majored in photography/video. But that photo is too grainy and too dark to call an "elbows to point" or "smokes not dark enough".

Anyhoo, someone has done some awesome work enhancing the photos: https://citeam.org/ruaf-mil-mi-35-hind-e-down/

So it's either rocket malfunction or a friendly fire incident.

[GScholz]

Actually, I think you're right...