Author Topic: Let's get more people back in the skies!  (Read 5172 times)

Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: Let's get more people back in the skies!
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2016, 07:09:07 PM »
TBH, I don't think this particular arena should be for noobs only. I'd like an arena where I can hop in and get a quick warm up, or find super quick fights, with a 15-30 minute time span of play.

It would help noobs because they would be able to communicate with vets, and learn how challenging the game really is, while having quick action and a lot of fun... It would also be a great arena to show your friends to get them interested.

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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Let's get more people back in the skies!
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2016, 08:25:30 PM »
TBH, I don't think this particular arena should be for noobs only. I'd like an arena where I can hop in and get a quick warm up, or find super quick fights, with a 15-30 minute time span of play.

It would help noobs because they would be able to communicate with vets, and learn how challenging the game really is, while having quick action and a lot of fun... It would also be a great arena to show your friends to get them interested.


The only problem with that is newbs are going to enjoy getting spanked by a bunch of vets.

You very definition of the quick type of fights you want is the DA lake. Ask HTC to set some rules like they  do when the AvA guys run the Monday Night Madness. Set a message of the day pointing out the rules, run film and have those that don't follow them get bumped/banned from it using the film as evidence. If it is set up with clear rules the "crap" that killed DA lake in the first place could be avoided.

After that, promote the fights and have at it. Those that want that type of furball fights only will come as long as the rules are covered.

As for a Newb arena, I love to see that. AW had it and I would spend time in there as a target. My time was up so I couldn't fire a gun, but it helped me learn plane control, gave the new guys a tougher target that they could be aggressive on with out getting hammered at the first mistake. Made many friends and new squad mates that way.

Getting more people in, well thats the real issue. I can understand HTC not wanting to spend money on advertising with AH3 not yet completed. But word MUST get out there about this game. Social media may help, but it will take almost "spam like" posting to push it out front and get it noticed.

Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: Let's get more people back in the skies!
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2016, 11:58:01 AM »

The only problem with that is newbs are going to enjoy getting spanked by a bunch of vets.

You very definition of the quick type of fights you want is the DA lake. Ask HTC to set some rules like they  do when the AvA guys run the Monday Night Madness. Set a message of the day pointing out the rules, run film and have those that don't follow them get bumped/banned from it using the film as evidence. If it is set up with clear rules the "crap" that killed DA lake in the first place could be avoided.

After that, promote the fights and have at it. Those that want that type of furball fights only will come as long as the rules are covered.

As for a Newb arena, I love to see that. AW had it and I would spend time in there as a target. My time was up so I couldn't fire a gun, but it helped me learn plane control, gave the new guys a tougher target that they could be aggressive on with out getting hammered at the first mistake. Made many friends and new squad mates that way.

Getting more people in, well thats the real issue. I can understand HTC not wanting to spend money on advertising with AH3 not yet completed. But word MUST get out there about this game. Social media may help, but it will take almost "spam like" posting to push it out front and get it noticed.

Noobs won't know who vets are. Noobs are noobs, even noobs beat new noobs. I don't jump into a room in BF4 and think I'm going to play better just because it's a noob arena. I still get my arse beat. I enjoy playing because it's cool, I realize that dying is pretty much apart of the process to getting better. Yaws did that to me during H2H years, but it helped me want to get better because I could see that there was a much better way of flying than what I learned from other games. I think a room for everyone would be good for everyone because it would allow them to play a more fast pace type of game play. Score doesn't matter, so clubbing seals doesn't have a major effect. You could easily create an arena for both anyway if what you say turns out to be true.

I disagree that what I am thinking about is the DA lake. The DA lake is not designed for quick action. There is no reason to implement rules when no one is in there. You to take off with your 5K advantage, spend 10 minutes still getting to the fight, get ganged, or constantly fight against higher players. There's a reason why it died. It just wasn't as fun as the old DA, and it's not as quick into action like the old DA. I'm not saying to bring back the old DA. Just that it created faster fights. The DA lake isn't working because it defeats the purpose of itself.

There needs to be an airspawn map like deathbowl with a 3-4K limit, spread out, all green map. This will let people jump right into the action. It's what a lot of players have been wishing for. We need a fast pace arena that invites players to get right into the action. I think it would have a huge effect on the future amount of subscribers for so many reasons.



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Offline mbailey

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Re: Let's get more people back in the skies!
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2016, 12:25:05 PM »
Instead of two months of free play, how about 100 sortie hours?   

If they use up the 100 hours, chances are they're hooked.   Sometimes life can keep you from playing and having a time limit (even though two months is far better than two weeks) could be a deterrent for some.

True, I was hooked after the first 10hrs playing....14yrs ago
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Offline Hajo

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Re: Let's get more people back in the skies!
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2016, 12:29:02 PM »
Even if a death bowl setup is designed I see very little attendance there.  The game is set up now so that can be done on the players volition.  Everything that has been requested or commented on can be done now. What needs to change for fights to occur and good fights is community attitude.  Everything is here to do that.  As time goes by everything changes.
Turnover in the community, game play etc.  Most of the newer players have their own style of gameplay whether we like it or not.  We don't force style of gameplay, but we can influence it by exhibiting the sting of battle.  Wish there were no scores involved.  But hey!  That's just me. 
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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: Let's get more people back in the skies!
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2016, 01:42:39 PM »
Even if a death bowl setup is designed I see very little attendance there.  The game is set up now so that can be done on the players volition.  Everything that has been requested or commented on can be done now. What needs to change for fights to occur and good fights is community attitude.  Everything is here to do that.  As time goes by everything changes.
Turnover in the community, game play etc.  Most of the newer players have their own style of gameplay whether we like it or not.  We don't force style of gameplay, but we can influence it by exhibiting the sting of battle.  Wish there were no scores involved.  But hey!  That's just me.

How does score only affect the players who play in this game compared to every other competitive game with scoring? There are a lot of anti score arguments, but that doesn't really correlate when the majority of people who play the game don't worry about score, or don't know how to really get a good score. I feel like the whole score debate is a cop out to say they are only running away because of their score. In some cases that is true, but the real reason is because they don't know how to perform defensive manauevers. When you have planes like 190Ds and P51s that are not perked, and can easily escape most trouble, that's what most new players are going to choose. A Death Bowl would defeat the reason to run. I could see this as a better way for players to learn the game, show it to friends, and have a more fun time when you don't have a long time to play.

The problem with the whole community argument, is that it will never be fixed. You cannot change a community that you cannot control. The community is what it is. The people will act how they act.

The issue is a few simple structural issues with the maps that can completely change the dynamics of the fight.

Most of the complaints I hear about is how people are aimlessly flying around wasting time looking for ghost. The custom arenas tab is in a place where most people aren't going to look. It's not gonna have the same effect as a arena on the front page. Plus, the majority of players do not know how to open a custom arena. It's just too much of a hassle in most cases. If you play Chivalry, FFA, on the arena map, it's nothing but chaos and slaughter, but it's so fun, I learned a lot about the game. AH needs an arena like that. There has got to be a way to suck new players in. Right now, with low arena #s and no where to find quick action, you see players log off and quit because they are bored. You see no new subscribers because they cannot find any action at 2:30pm and so they simply don't subscribe. There has got to be a better solution and imo that's opening up the opportunity for quick fights in a closed small arena.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2016, 01:45:32 PM by DmonSlyr »
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Offline Wiley

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Re: Let's get more people back in the skies!
« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2016, 01:50:21 PM »
So... "counterstrike in aircraft" is basically what you're after.  It'd be popular.  I'd hate it and it would likely kill the MA, but it would be popular.

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Offline FX1

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Re: Let's get more people back in the skies!
« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2016, 02:36:48 PM »
I would like to see something to bring in new players. I had some free time from work this morning at 10am so I drove home to play. 32 players and all were more than likely in Gv. Waste of my gas and time.

Offline pembquist

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Re: Let's get more people back in the skies!
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2016, 03:10:44 PM »
I think the game was never an easy place to be a new player and yet was still successful. I'm going to flat out guess that the difference today is that the pipeline of people giving the game a try just isn't working very well. It might be worse to be a new player now because numbers are lower and the game lacks the energy it had when hundreds were on in 2 main arenas but it was always a challenge and I would guess that a lot of people who tried it out got bored real quick with dying after long, (more than a minute,) flights to their death so the retention of a player who made contact through a free 2 weeks was maybe low compared to other games even back then.

I think there are several things the game could have that would help with retention, I think of lot of potentially good ideas have been suggested, (I've long thought that an easy way to practice shooting at maneuvering drones would help get people up to speed,) but I am not sure that if the conversion rate went up it would make as much of a difference as an increase in simple raw numbers of two week trials would.

I'm not a video game player so its only intuition and youtube videos that inform my thinking. From what I have read War Thunder's FRB is a ghost town most of the time, and you need track IR unless you are unusually skilled, The ATAG server, (IL2,) boasts of 100 player capacity. I don't know ROF's numbers but the couple times I tried they were low, DCS I don't know anything about because it tried to break my computer, (if you have the hardware it is supposed to be hip.) If AH is going to remain AH I would say that those are the competitors and the active player base across those games seems like it is really small, they are all niche games. I am not considering War Thunder aside from FRB to be a competitor to AH in the same sense that I don't consider shooter games or Arma or any of the other titles I don't really know much about to be competitors.

Except for players with, by my standards, freakish skill, I consider AH to be a joystick game that is more about simulating the physical, (manipulation of stick and rudder plus throttle,) than it is about controlling a game airplane with a computer. Does that make sense? I think that this is rare. Even within AH the way tanks and level bombing is controlled strays from this, I would argue in part because there are not any generally available physical controls that model the real life controls for those aspects of the game. The reason why I like the absence of carb heat and radiator flaps and other IL2/DCS (from what I hear) "realism" is that those button pushing features have no tactile reality and in fact interfere with my suspension of disbelief. In my view this introduces a real quandary, the best thing about the game is also the greatest barrier to experiencing it well and subscribing after a 2 week trial.

I'm just going to go out on a limb and assume that joystick sales are on par with VHS recorders meaning that the background hardware environment that supported a higher number of try outs and conversions for AH has gotten really bad. I seem to remember that AH had some kind of deal with a joystick manufacturer to give free joysticks with a subscription but since its long gone I'm assuming it didn't work. The problem as I see it is that at the moment AH can compete against the other combat flight sims that aren't arcade but the whole genre has trouble generating leads when competing against games that don't require any special hardware.

What I don't really understand is that, even given this hardware obstacle, why the raw growth of the number of people with computers and internet access hasn't expanded the number of potential players enough to soak up the change in tastes. When I look at Civil War Reenactors I feel like there must be at least that many people World Wide who would play AH. To me this suggests that there are still plenty of potential new customers but they are clearly harder to reach.

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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Let's get more people back in the skies!
« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2016, 04:33:43 PM »
Noobs won't know who vets are. Noobs are noobs, even noobs beat new noobs. I don't jump into a room in BF4 and think I'm going to play better just because it's a noob arena. I still get my arse beat. I enjoy playing because it's cool, I realize that dying is pretty much apart of the process to getting better. Yaws did that to me during H2H years, but it helped me want to get better because I could see that there was a much better way of flying than what I learned from other games. I think a room for everyone would be good for everyone because it would allow them to play a more fast pace type of game play. Score doesn't matter, so clubbing seals doesn't have a major effect. You could easily create an arena for both anyway if what you say turns out to be true.

I disagree that what I am thinking about is the DA lake. The DA lake is not designed for quick action. There is no reason to implement rules when no one is in there. You to take off with your 5K advantage, spend 10 minutes still getting to the fight, get ganged, or constantly fight against higher players. There's a reason why it died. It just wasn't as fun as the old DA, and it's not as quick into action like the old DA. I'm not saying to bring back the old DA. Just that it created faster fights. The DA lake isn't working because it defeats the purpose of itself.

There needs to be an airspawn map like deathbowl with a 3-4K limit, spread out, all green map. This will let people jump right into the action. It's what a lot of players have been wishing for. We need a fast pace arena that invites players to get right into the action. I think it would have a huge effect on the future amount of subscribers for so many reasons.

Newbs will not populate a "death match" arena. Look at what the newbs are doing now, running to ack, or manning a gun. Why? Because they don't enjoy getting hammered by the sharks.

Second as to the bolded section, The reason the DA lake went south is because there were no rules so a bunch of players did what ever they wanted and chased away those that were just looking for some action. If the DA lake was revamped with an alt cap (heavy down draft at 5K), rules clearly listed in the MOD, and HTC willing to hammer those caught on film for trying to work outside of those rules, you would have the death match arena you want. Once it is known what the rules are and how things work in there like minded players will repopulate the DA.

But a death match arena to save the game? Nawwww ain't going to happen. While there are a lot of folk, myself included that like to fight, what we see in the main arena now proves that we are NOT the majority. Also, players like me like to fight for everything, not just head to head in a fighter. I like running GVs, bombing crap, taking base and so on. A death match arena won't provide that type of play.

Offline caldera

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Re: Let's get more people back in the skies!
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2016, 04:53:20 PM »
Newbs will not populate a "death match" arena. Look at what the newbs are doing now, running to ack, or manning a gun. Why? Because they don't enjoy getting hammered by the sharks.

Second as to the bolded section, The reason the DA lake went south is because there were no rules so a bunch of players did what ever they wanted and chased away those that were just looking for some action. If the DA lake was revamped with an alt cap (heavy down draft at 5K), rules clearly listed in the MOD, and HTC willing to hammer those caught on film for trying to work outside of those rules, you would have the death match arena you want. Once it is known what the rules are and how things work in there like minded players will repopulate the DA.

But a death match arena to save the game? Nawwww ain't going to happen. While there are a lot of folk, myself included that like to fight, what we see in the main arena now proves that we are NOT the majority. Also, players like me like to fight for everything, not just head to head in a fighter. I like running GVs, bombing crap, taking base and so on. A death match arena won't provide that type of play.

I think the biggest reason the DA died is because the furball lake crowd found out they can fly in external view mode on Warthunder for free.
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Offline Lusche

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Re: Let's get more people back in the skies!
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2016, 04:59:13 PM »
I think the biggest reason the DA died is because the furball lake crowd found out they can fly in external view mode on Warthunder for free.

This guy thinks the same.  :old:
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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: Let's get more people back in the skies!
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2016, 07:16:01 PM »
Newbs will not populate a "death match" arena. Look at what the newbs are doing now, running to ack, or manning a gun. Why? Because they don't enjoy getting hammered by the sharks.

Second as to the bolded section, The reason the DA lake went south is because there were no rules so a bunch of players did what ever they wanted and chased away those that were just looking for some action. If the DA lake was revamped with an alt cap (heavy down draft at 5K), rules clearly listed in the MOD, and HTC willing to hammer those caught on film for trying to work outside of those rules, you would have the death match arena you want. Once it is known what the rules are and how things work in there like minded players will repopulate the DA.

But a death match arena to save the game? Nawwww ain't going to happen. While there are a lot of folk, myself included that like to fight, what we see in the main arena now proves that we are NOT the majority. Also, players like me like to fight for everything, not just head to head in a fighter. I like running GVs, bombing crap, taking base and so on. A death match arena won't provide that type of play.

It's not a "save the game" type of request. It's simply a way to get people in the air fast and have people to shoot at instantly. Something like this would be perfect to sucker in new players. New players and even veteran players have trouble finding fights sometimes, or they just want to mix it up in a quick combat scenario. Sometimes people don't have the time to fly 15_20 min to a base looking for 1 or 2 people in a sector. It's extremely difficult to gauge what the situation is like, and then decide if you have the time to go find it. Then it's a 25K 190D and you are like, shoot. So you go grab a 190D and fly the same way. It's part of why people fly those types of planes the way they do. Small #s in the off hours create this. So do I want to chase down 1 high alt monkey who will run from me because he's a "noob," or do I want to join an arena where I can find people to shoot and fly with in a small zone of fighting while the #s are low in the MA?

The MA will have its MA players who like strategy and that type of thing. This would actually bring tons of new players into the MA to check it out, which will increase the fights. It will also increase the competition in the MA.

When there are a lot of #s in the MA, the game is a blast. The point is to bring #s to the entire game. Having an arena where people can get in the action more quickly, and understand it, will bring vast #s to the MA. The MA will be seen as much more of a competive place to be. You really have to understand the way people fly in this game to understand why this would work. I've been doing it for 10 years now at a very high level. I know the way  lot of players fly. Believe me.

Fugi, I think you have the wrong perspective about what players today want. The whole running/hiding/ack hugging type of play is a very natural phenomenon. It's never going to stop. The community will always do it. The "community" or who ever they are, will always act the same in abundance. The late war planes in ww2 were literally designed for the purpose of escaping the enemy and running to safety as quickly as possible . The only way to get more people rolling from bases is to get more people playing the game.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2016, 07:19:01 PM by DmonSlyr »
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Offline shake307

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Re: Let's get more people back in the skies!
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2016, 07:18:27 PM »
I don't mind coming back, but I don't really care for being a chew toy for some of you elitist sticks.
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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Let's get more people back in the skies!
« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2016, 08:28:13 PM »
It's not a "save the game" type of request. It's simply a way to get people in the air fast and have people to shoot at instantly. Something like this would be perfect to sucker in new players. New players and even veteran players have trouble finding fights sometimes, or they just want to mix it up in a quick combat scenario. Sometimes people don't have the time to fly 15_20 min to a base looking for 1 or 2 people in a sector. It's extremely difficult to gauge what the situation is like, and then decide if you have the time to go find it. Then it's a 25K 190D and you are like, shoot. So you go grab a 190D and fly the same way. It's part of why people fly those types of planes the way they do. Small #s in the off hours create this. So do I want to chase down 1 high alt monkey who will run from me because he's a "noob," or do I want to join an arena where I can find people to shoot and fly with in a small zone of fighting while the #s are low in the MA?

The MA will have its MA players who like strategy and that type of thing. This would actually bring tons of new players into the MA to check it out, which will increase the fights. It will also increase the competition in the MA.

When there are a lot of #s in the MA, the game is a blast. The point is to bring #s to the entire game. Having an arena where people can get in the action more quickly, and understand it, will bring vast #s to the MA. The MA will be seen as much more of a competive place to be. You really have to understand the way people fly in this game to understand why this would work. I've been doing it for 10 years now at a very high level. I know the way  lot of players fly. Believe me.

Fugi, I think you have the wrong perspective about what players today want. The whole running/hiding/ack hugging type of play is a very natural phenomenon. It's never going to stop. The community will always do it. The "community" or who ever they are, will always act the same in abundance. The late war planes in ww2 were literally designed for the purpose of escaping the enemy and running to safety as quickly as possible . The only way to get more people rolling from bases is to get more people playing the game.


I have been here for 15 years. I have see it start, blossom into its heyday, and now dwindle down to what we have now. I have see the continuous furballs we use to have, the beginning of the base takes, the zone strats/bases the capture lines, the country wide squad ops, the squad head to heads, the birth of the hordes, and the dropping of country dar just to tweak off players.

I know how to play this game as well as every facet of this game. I know very well how the players use to play and how it has changed over the years to what we have now, and I can tell you splitting off on another arena is not how you grow the population.

How is adding 50 players to a death bowl arena going to add any players to the main arena? At best your going to pull some of the players out of the mains to join in the death bowl if it becomes that popular.

You need to increase the game play in the main arenas to increase the population and to maintain that increase. Players are not going to come into this game and get vulched or waste time chasing players who run or hide in ack and say "Hell ya!!! I want to spend money on this!" If game play isn't tweaked to make it more fun and challenging with out the "short cuts" everyone uses now players are going to come in, play a bit, and leave.