Tactics to beat F4u in P47?

[Zigrat]

Hi,
I am having trouble with the f4u in the p47. In my experience, it climbs and turns better, and can outrun the p47. Anyone have any tips on how to beat it? I am also having trouble with the macchi and the nik, though i can usually run away from them, though this isnt very fun.

[Westy]

 Not sure on much with this aircraft yet, as I'd not flown it since it was caged Fraiday night.   But if you do get in trouble? Dive. The 47 has an air brake. The F4U doesn't. On Friday night I chuckled when an F4U dove with me and I pulled out. He couldn't.  
 Split S'ing and then kicking in the speedbrake is a nice trick in the 38 - imagine it will could be with the 47 too.

 -Westy

[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 06-26-2000).]

[Daff]

Ok, this is based on my experiences from WB and while the F4U handles a fair bit better here, I still think some of it is valid:
Unless you get above 20k, you are at disadvantage in all aspects apart from one:
The ability to bleed E (No, I'm not kidding  ).

This makes it fairly easy to force an overshoot in a hi-yoyo/ rolling scissor fight and might give you the snapshot.
Use loads of flap when you get below 160-150mph. You can pull vert at 150, if you progressivly add flaps all the way up and you'll still have reasonable aileron and rudder authority to roll your liftvector on to the bogey.
 As for the Macchi and N1K1, I use a sucker move .
 As they get on your 6, start a shallow (angle depending on how close they are) dive and bank slightly. As speed builds, increase the bank and back pressure, sucker them to pull lead and as they commit, do a noselow barrel roll. At high speed, they can't roll inside you (As they have already committed to pulling lead) and you can roll around them as they overshoot and at least end up outside guns, but often on their 6  .
I've also had a couple of Niks that never recovered and continued straight down  .
 The "trick" to the P-47 is very much to use peoples speed *against* them, force the overshoot and watch them go defensive.
If they dont fall for that kind of stuff, they're too good and I usually dive away  

Daff
 

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CO, 56th Fighter Group
"This is Yardstick. Follow me"

[Lephturn]

Basically Zigrat... have more  E starting out.  It's about the only way.  That, or you better have less fuel than he has.

The P47 is quite good on fuel I find, so you should be able to engage with a lighter load than a Hog if you both have the same distance to RTB.

These two planes are very close in performance, both are fast.  The F4U retains E a bit better and turns better, but the P47 zooms a bit better.  The Jug will do better up high due to it's great supercharger.

Manage your WEP well.  With no WEP, the F4U will be all over you, however with WEP I think the Jug will be a bit faster and climb a bit better as long as the fuel is close.

Above all, if you want to live in the P47... be above all!    With it's great dive and zoom, you can work an E advantage for a long time in the Jug.  Failing that, always have about 7k of diving room, and you can normally dive away from anything.  Even a P51 or F4U will have trouble following if you use your dive recovery flaps.  However, be warned, it is not a dive brake, it's a dive flap.  This won't slow you down drastically, but rather will allow you to regain control in a high speed dive when compression sets in.  Use it as such and you will be rewarded.    Try to use it as an air brake to force the overshoot and you'll just die faster.

I remember back in the old brand W days when there were no over-speed damage effects.  You could dive a Jug to 600 MPH plus and it wouldn't come apart.  That was an instant-escape if you had 7k of alt.  However, if you use your dive recovery flaps intelligently, you can acheive something similar in the AH Jug.

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs
Visit Lephturn's Aerodrome for AH news, resources, and training data.
 http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/
 

"MY P-47 is a pretty good ship
And she took a round coming 'cross the Channel last trip
I was thinking 'bout my baby and lettin' her rip
Always got me through so far
Well they can ship me all over this great big world
But I'll never find nothing like my North End girl
I'm taking her home with me one day, sir
Soon as we win this war"
 - Steve Earl

[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 06-26-2000).]

[MANDOBLE]

IMO, after some offline testing these three are main advantages of P47 vs F4U:
1 - P47 substained climb rate is better.
2 - P47 hability to flip on the top of loops is much better, so you can perform tight loops quicker than Corsair.
3 - IMO, E retention is much better in P47.

[Rude]

Im not tellin ya a cotton picken thing...your hard enough to kill as it is!

Cyas Up! (on ur 6 I hope)

Rude Out!

[Fluf]

I think you all should ask MajorTom about flying the p47. He gave me a whipping last night when I was flying a p51. I had a slightly overheated engine, but he outturned me on the deck with his Jug after a pretty thrilling vertical fight. Impressed me a great deal. I'm pretty new to AH, but I've been darned impressed with some of the hot sticks I've run into. There are some true virtuosos of E fighting in this sim that just make my jaw drop. MajorTom is one of them.
Fluf

[juzz]

I've done some rough testing, by putting the planes into a 3g turn at 250mph IAS and turning 180º, and seeing what speed they come out at. The Jug comes out faster than the Hog. Why? Look at its wing - looks a bit like the Spitfire wing, eh?  

[Duckwing6]

Agreeed .. the JUG accelerates a lot better than the F4U so any scissors / rolling scissors should do the trick as you can even pop the speedbreaks, chop throttle and cut really tight corners in it .. also i think the stall charakteristic of the JUG is better than the F4Us ..
And as soon as youre slow it has real nice flaps to work with (just like the Hog) .. that and the better acceleration should help you a lot.

DW6

[mx22]

What Lephturn said. If you want to survive in Jug, make sure you stay above your opponents.

mx22

[DoctorYO]

Juzz has a good point.....  When enemy is on my 6 I use a low 1-2k nose low turn...

Now hopefully you understand the basics of staying fast...  It makes you a harder target and gives your enemy less time to react....With that being said by using the lazy turn you throw off his aim till about distance 500 or less.....  When then enemy is that close he is in for a scissors or some other e bleed technique to force the over shoot....

How many of you guys use sideslips....  Very effective when combined with scissors...

No granted that F4U can still out turn you and roll you.. but he is at a disadvantage being that close and having to react to your imput, not the other way around..


Make your evasives count.. Not this FW190 dance that i see all too often.. where the guy on the 6 just waits till your done or out of e and smokes ya...   Look at your enemy see how quick he is to react to your manuever...  if he is slow then break hard....if he cheats and leads into your turn then reverse... Most important keep your eyes on him, see what he does and react to it....

Plane is less important in this situation smarts is paramount......

regards,

DoctorYO

[Rocket]

The F4U does have dive brakes.  The are about as effective as the one on the 47 but only good from 350IAS and down.  Just drop gear and cut throttle.  Watch airspeed and get gear up before you damage them.  And yes this is an official dive brake.  The real F4Us had a lever marked dive brakes and this dropped the main gear but not the tail gear. The tail gear was too weak to withstand the high speeds.   When I asked HT about setting the dive brake up on the shftC early in beta he said they would just beef up the tail wheel to withstand the forces.

Thing to remember is that the dive flaps on the P47 and F4U aren't as big as the ones on the P38. In offline dive tests the P38 seems to hold ~300 or less in a dive with the brakes and the P47, F4U will still accelerate but stay more stable than without them  

S!
Rocket

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[This message has been edited by Rocket (edited 06-27-2000).]

[juzz]

The P-47D does not accelerate better than the F4U-1. The only thing it has over the F4U-1 is weight(ie: dive) and high altitude performance.