Ghosts of the Ostfront

[DaveBB]

I've been listening to Dan Carlin's "Ghosts of the Ostfront".  It covers the German invasion of the Soviet Union.  I'm amazed at how brutal each side was not only to each other, but to civilians.  The Germans, including (or perhaps especially) the Wehrmacht, simply annihilated civilians when they came upon villages.  This was to make room for German colonists who were to move in to western Russia.  The Soviets weren't much better.  Remember the "Scorched earth policy"?  When you burn down someones house in the dead of winter in Russia, it's pretty much a death sentence.  In another documented case, the Soviets put German POWs on in a field, and made them lay down shoulder to shoulder.  They then sprayed them with a water hose and froze them to death.  They created an ice road out of their bodies in order to drive trucks over.

Anyhow, it's 4 hours long, and its free.  Give it a listen.  It'll definitely take any misplaced romanticism out of the Eastern Front.

https://player.fm/series/dan-carlins-classic-hardcore-history

[FLOOB]

Yep, it's a myth that most of the atrocities commited by german forces were commited by the SS. In the documentary "Bugging Hitler's Soldiers" a luftwaffe solder talks about liquidating hospitals and raping girls in the east.

[Devil 505]

I just finished listening to part one, and it's fantastic.

[Ack-Ack]

In his book, "A Stranger to Myself", Willy Peter Reese describes in detail some of the round ups he witnessed of Soviet citizens and so-called partisans.  He describes mostly special SS teams going and in doing the "dirty work" while regular German army units surrounded the village/town and provided security and preventing any civilians from escaping.  Gruesome stuff.

[Devil 505]

In his book, "A Stranger to Myself", Willy Peter Reese describes in detail some of the round ups he witnessed of Soviet citizens and so-called partisans.  He describes mostly special SS teams going and in doing the "dirty work" while regular German army units surrounded the village/town and provided security and preventing any civilians from escaping.  Gruesome stuff.

There's an anecdote in "A Higher Call" where an SS major attempted to recruit ground crew from Jg 3 for just that purpose. Jg 3 Kommodore, Gunther Lutzow, forbade his men from going with the SS, knowing what the SS would do.

[Curval]

The Germans put prisoners they didn't execute into pens out in the open and left them to starve to death.

[mbailey]

As a complete Hardcore History nut....don't just stop at Ghosts of the Ostfront.....All his Hardore History podcasts are amazing. Some you have to buy....but they are worth every penny....and they are dirt cheap...like $1.99 each. He does an amazing one on the Mongols called Wrath of the Khans (5 parts).  One on WWI called Blueprint for Armageddon (6 parts) is crazy good. 

[GScholz]

The war between the two great European dictators on the Eastern Front was a conflict on a scale, both in numbers and brutality, the world had never seen before or since. The rest of WWII was but a sideshow. The Soviets and Germans lost more men in a single battle than the combined losses of all the western Allies of the whole war.


Everyone should watch this:

[DaveBB]

As a complete Hardcore History nut....don't just stop at Ghosts of the Ostfront.....All his Hardore History podcasts are amazing. Some you have to buy....but they are worth every penny....and they are dirt cheap...like $1.99 each. He does an amazing one on the Mongols called Wrath of the Khans (5 parts).  One on WWI called Blueprint for Armageddon (6 parts) is crazy good.

Blueprint for Armageddon got me started.  Then I listened to the one about the Spanish American War.  But Ghosts of the Ostfront is by far the most haunting.  It's sickening what the Germans did to the Soviets, and what the Soviets did in return to the Germans (and themselves).  The scale of these atrocities is beyond comprehension. 

I've seen 700,000 people once at a massive airshow/fireworks show in Louisville, KY.  The Soviets lost that many people in a single operation.

[zack1234]

Don't mention the Spanish American war for goodness sake!

The Americans will fall over if they hear about that.

Mel Gibson knows very well the dirty redcoats are the only ones who are to blame.

Germans complaining about soviet behaviour is hilarious

[FLOOB]

Zach, I'm not going to mention names but it's been brought to my attention by members of this board that they are tired of seeing you post in every thread without contributing anything. And that you post rambling nonsense, often derailing otherwise good threads and Serenity doesn't like it!

[Easyscor]

Well, he doesn't bother me, but then he's been on my ignore list since shortly after he joined the boards. One of only three or so on my list. Problem solved, at least for me.
 

 

[zack1234]

I have been triggered

[Easyscor]

Why did I come in here to begin with?
Oh, yeah. The presenter mentions Beevor's book, and I can recommend his book 'Stalingrad' over the podcast. There's another on Leningrad (St Petersberg) but I can't remember if Beevor was the author. Those accounts are both inspiring and horrendous.

The eastern front is the most interesting if you can stomach it. The German invasion rarely took prisoners and when they were routed, they paid the debt in kind, over and over again. I can see my younger self, or many of my compatriots at a younger age participating in the same kinds of acts.
WWII ended two years before I was born but I was in primary school during Korea. Back then, in the school yard and at scout camp, tails were told purportedly about fathers and uncles discussing US soldiers killing anyone within range of their guns in both wars. Sure, probably fiction, but my generation went to Vietnam with those stories and the accompanying mindset.

 

[FLOOB]

That's it Easycor is going on my ignore list. He's No. 23.