Distant dot removal experiment = Unsuccessful

[Dobs]

So maybe there is another option, albeit a harder/more work intensive one, in that you can "age in" dot size.

Having come from a game where you can select "old man eyes" dot size (tick the box and voila...big old black bomber sized dots at a distance), it does indeed "change" game play. 

I know you have to have icons for visual cues which  you can't get from the monitor....mainly range and closure, but right now we have guaranteed 3 mile tally-ho's which is quite "nice" for small fighter sized aircraft.    Making 6+mile tally's is a bit much...

Having to scan the screen for a tiny pixel is a bear as well..... so my thought is this.

If I'm staring at a view for say 3 seconds, the dot size from icon range (6k) to 9k gets 25% bigger.  The dot size for all else stays the same and at 5 seconds the dot size from 9k to 12k gets 25% bigger.   If I change views...the dot size resets.

Just tossing some distances and % out there for discussion. 

I advocated for "halo" icons in the past in a different game... no icons until xx seconds, then you get a "halo color" around the aircraft you see, which appears based on its range and time spent looking.  Also a change from numbers for ranging when inside d1200 to an arrow which coincides to clock position (if clock positions confuse you, google it and go buy yourself a yoohoo...cuz you aint' old enough to drink!  ) .  See link.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-kwhapBgCtYbjBmX0dfN2JfaTA/view?usp=sharing

Or a "." to indicate Friend or Foe inside of d1200.  Normal icons till 1200..then change over

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-kwhapBgCtYS2lOWTFVY2xGdWM/view?usp=sharing

Tossing this out for discussion...

<dons flame retardant suit>

[Chilli]

So Shift8, surprisingly your answer is you don't want others to have it based on your conclusion that they should be considered a cheat.   

  I wonder if VR headsets and TrakIR are "cheats" in your opinion also?

Have at it HiTech, you have plenty of support for your change and as a few have said in this thread (myself included) plenty of echoes online in favor of the large dots. 

[caldera]

I didn't mind the distant dots, but they should have been smaller.  The bigger problem was them disappearing in between distant dot and icon range.  That was strange and likely confusing for noobs.

[1stpar3]

I didn't mind the distant dots, but they should have been smaller.  The bigger problem was them disappearing in between distant dot and icon range.  That was strange and likely confusing for noobs.

I could live with that! I dont believe any of the "PLUS 1" guys for dots are asking for giant pulsing disco balls, but most planes are next to impossible to see at distance. With the "FOG" and clouds we have now really obscure players ability to pick up fighters at high alt. Let alone the lack of detail in the water terrains. The dots as they were helped immensely! I think i can count on 3 fingers the number of times that I heard anyone comment about the Dot size being a negative, while it was in testing. True, there were lots of bigger problems and issues to hammer out! I am a bird hunter,not a pilot in real life, and I can spot a lone dove at 5oo yards,but can hardly see a higher bomber right up until almost icon range! More than once icons have merged on radar and still cant see any plane anywhere. Not asking for much here, just a compromise. I dont care if its a 1 pixel moving black dot from 8k to icon range, its more of a heads up than i have now. Icon range from base guns are set at 10k,so why not a dot at 8k for fighters.Choose a color, not pick about that either. In AH2 p-38s and B- 24,26s showed up at far greater distances than other planes did, never heard much complaining about that. Didnt effect ACK ACKs kills lol. In 3 all planes are pretty much same color as the sky.

[shift8]

So Shift8, surprisingly your answer is you don't want others to have it based on your conclusion that they should be considered a cheat.   

  I wonder if VR headsets and TrakIR are "cheats" in your opinion also?

Have at it HiTech, you have plenty of support for your change and as a few have said in this thread (myself included) plenty of echoes online in favor of the large dots.

That is absolutely asinine logic. Track IR, and VR headsets are external peripherals that cannot be controlled by the game. You are comparing a actual aspect of the games coding to peripherals. It is utterly inane to think that you getting your giants dots and the rest of us "just turning them off" is somehow a equal compromise that makes everyone happy. What you want is a unrealistic mechanic that assists your spotting because as laid out in this thread, you are either too impatient, not skilled enough, or cannot be bothered to look for more realistic dots. Quite frankly, your reasoning here is so incredibility dissonant that is hard to believe you are even being genuine, but instead are trying to obfuscate the issue by playing coy and pretending that you are actually being reasonable. 

[rvflyer]

You wrote all of that for real? Maybe you are part of an cult but I don't see all the stuff you wrote happening. I can always find a fight I want be it CV, Buffs, tanks fighters ETC. You have to look. Only guys I feel for are the ones that have to play during a time when not many from the US are logged on. I can start a fight almost anywhere on the map, just show up and they will come. My only gripe with the game is that tanks are way to hard to see from the air. In real flying I can spot ground object from several thousand feet up.

Chilli, altering the icon ranges or adding giant dots ruins game play because it unrealistically skews tactics and alters which aircraft features are more and less important. It ends up turning the entire game into a giant meat-grinder where the main deciding factor is more or less whoever is lucky enough to show up last.

While you are correct in stating that real life vision is better than what is produced by a monitor, AH2 and AH3 already have TONS of compensating factors in game. The Icons are already more than sufficient by themselves. The game does not need small battleships for dots at 10 miles distance. It is not realistic at all.

Building SA, and making decisions based on it, is a critical skill set for any fighter pilot.



It is fairly clear however that there is a growing cult inside of this community whose sole desire is to turn the game into a endless mindless fur ball and nothing else.

These people don't like being ambushed.

They don't like someone running from them.

They don't like it when they get shot down by flak.

They don't like it when bombers bomb things that inconvenience them.

They don't like it when someone climbs away from them.

They don't like people who fly higher than whatever altitude they have deemed to be subjectively unreasonable.

They don't like it when people run into flak to avoid a unfair fight.

Or having to deal with any aspect of the game that doesnt fall into a tiny sub-section of cult-approved activities. Which is more or less just flying around in circles on the deck.

Generally speaking, this cult doesn't like anything that results in a battle that isnt either a rolling scissors or a traditional two-circle geometry turning duel. Heaven forbid they not be granted instant SA no matter how careless they may be, because its a cardinal sin to kill them when they are unawares. It is also unspeakable to insinuate the the game play should feature tactical decisions more complicated than choosing between a left or right turn.

You have to wonder why they havent suggested simply giving planes infinite icons that you can see across the map! After all, this would help everyone "find a fight"

Oh wait I have an even better Idea! We have one single map with 3 airfields in a triangle. Then we remove all the  planes in the game except the Hayabusa. Then we put a big concrete sphere around the fields so no one can climb or run. This will also remove all that pesky strategic level stuff from the game. There will be no bombers of course. Then we can all fly around like a bunch of flys next to a lamp post. Sounds fun. 

[1stpar3]

That is absolutely asinine logic. Track IR, and VR headsets are external peripherals that cannot be controlled by the game. You are comparing a actual aspect of the games coding to peripherals. It is utterly inane to think that you getting your giants dots and the rest of us "just turning them off" is somehow a equal compromise that makes everyone happy. What you want is a unrealistic mechanic that assists your spotting because as laid out in this thread, you are either too impatient, not skilled enough, or cannot be bothered to look for more realistic dots. Quite frankly, your reasoning here is so incredibility dissonant that is hard to believe you are even being genuine, but instead are trying to obfuscate the issue by playing coy and pretending that you are actually being reasonable. 

What? The game ABSOLUTELY has controls it could and does use on these peripherals! What in the heck is asinine about commenting on a feature we liked? Why throw out the slanders about chillis intentions here? That is what is asinine! Seems you dont even want to consider his idea at all! Who made you the voice of reason? I am not trying to be an A hole, but dang! Its a conversation about pros and cons, why make it so personal? Ok we get it your a NO, why belittle anyone with a different view? I guess the internet anonymity is in full force,now. Its a game, why will you not accept that others like different aspects of the older BETA setup, with out going into personal attacks? Ok You know better than he does, happy now? Once again read the Fn posts!!! No one is asking for flashing disco balls here. I believe you are or have been way to eager to argue than you are or were about understanding his and others points. Chilli is no way near the type that wants the game his way or bust, I have known him to be thoughtful and understanding of most discussions, so his intentions are benign! I am done with this as this isnt gonna go  anywhere,pretty sure the powers that be could really care less and doubt they even see these issues. Its not on the wish list, so let it go. Its just a discussion, no need to be a RICHARD! Pretty sure this isnt your in game handle, but curious as to how much time you spent in the Open Alpha and Beta phases? Just curious, as several folk keep their BBS accounts up and have zero in game play to have a clue what the discussion is really about. They just like to argue or prove how much they know more than anyone else!

[1stpar3]

Ok to further the discussion about  this... what would be a workable compromise between the OLD vs NEW dot rendering, Icon range (closer to,but not as far as field guns) to get any sort of coming togetherness on this issue? Most of the ideas I have seen are more than acceptable for me,personally anyway. Small to big, to icon works for me. Extended icon ranges, also open to. Dots that render small to large and reduced icon range,also open too. As I have said before, noone that is pro "old dot system" are asking for flashing arrows or disco ball dots. Its just that after month upon month working out bugs in AH3, some of us came to enjoy the increased SA. The "old dots" really leveled the playing field for some. I had a relatively new PC during the Testing phases but went up 1 notch in a newer PC, that would be VR capable.Yes, I can zoom in to see cons like it is now and I have TIR and am proficient with its use. I can track targets with my TIR setup at even ludicrous FOV settings(down to 50).  Not everyone has 3 monitors and top of the line gaming PCor the means to upgrade or buy TIR. We already have a Hud and ALT,IAS and mode display on screen and pretty sure real life WW2 didnt have that! Those that dont like it turn it off, so why not do the same with the dot situation?

[Chilli]

I had a bit of fun yesterday.  Caught up with some Knights when we had a 3% advantage in numbers and they cooperated to capture some sparsely defended fields.  Then we used the NEW function  (30 minute resupplies) to undo critical damage to all of your strats. 

So, I blew up a few buildings, scattered a few defenders with 50 cal rounds and flew the equivalent of 40 minutes to factories to look for destroyed buildings to resupply.  Funny, I couldn't see the damaged buildings from the air, but I was told by the "text buffer" that I did good and 'x' number of buildings had 30 minutes less down time.

All this time there was very minimal contact with enemy players.  My entertainment, however, did not come from the deeds of my journeys, it came from communications arising from a bunch of adults from across the globe, sitting behind a monitor screen working as a team. 

That is the thing that is missing, teamwork that was in just about every engagement during beta dogfights.  In my opinion, the poor identification, FOV changes, and "FOG OF WAR" have rendered certain parts of the game in a stagnant state.  I don't have to do a survey to predict the result. 

[1stpar3]

Yup, I have a few moments like that as well. Its amazing how a little communication works in a base defense as well Had a group of guys that called cons that you were headed towards,even. Was a HUGE plus! We started out numbered 5 to 1(and here I thought only the Bish hoarded) but we stayed in the fight with the 6 calls. Then we got some straggling helpers, ended up being about a 3 hour campaign! NOW that was FUN! We eventually lost out, but that was the most fun I have had in some time. Even got a check 6 from Starfox lol.

Now all I need is to find you out and about, there CHILLI   See how the TIR is doing for ya, first hand    

[save]

Me too, dancing dots all over the place.

I found that early long distance dot to be very irritating.

In some warbirds scenarios we only had that green or red neon vertical bar at full range (much like the vertical bar in AH, only a bit longer) -indicating friend or foe - info you should have been given from radar control

When you got within 1-2k type designation showed up, but you never were given a  range sign.

Maybe something to test for scenarios...but not melee arena.

[1stpar3]

Me too, dancing dots all over the place.

In some warbirds scenarios we only had that green or red neon vertical bar at full range (much like the vertical bar in AH, only a bit longer) -indicating friend or foe - info you should have been given from radar control

When you got within 1-2k type designation showed up, but you never were given a  range sign.

Maybe something to test for scenarios...but not melee arena.

I could go with that! Too bad we do not have the sights they had in WW2,meaning dialing in the range by manipulating the gun sight. Gunnery for me, was the biggest change. In testing, cons were visible at or around field gun icon range, but the lack of tracer visibility was biggest issue! When I say cons were visable, I dont mean with icons. I really have a hard time understanding the complaints about the older BETA dot system. How would it make any difference if they went from big to small? True it seems counter intuitive, but a heads up is a heads up. I know I never saw any problem with the old dots. Didnt change squat for me, as far as game play. I got killed anyway, so dont see how its a problem! Like in a previous reply, arent asking for a neon sign at 8 miles just a better visibility out side of icon range.  Maybe just a dot that blinks on at intervals? I think that could be reasonable, although not sure how hard the coding would be to right. With this situation, scanning your 6 is still imperative. If you dont have SA developed,you could miss out seeing the dot flash in view. I dont know anyone who flies constantly with their view zoomed way in! Guessing that is why Hightech changed the default FOV from 80 to 90? All I know is, seeing targets is alot harder than I would like them to be. Its not in anyway a deal breaker though! You guys and this game were a life saver. I found it at just the right time,so I will just have to come up with a better plan! I aint going nowhere! You guys are just about the only friends I have and see on a regular basis. I do know one thing for sure! I sure am glad I didnt find this game before my kids were grown up!! Or I had to work! lol This is the cheapest price for feeding an addiction that I am aware of!
Adam Parsons  aka BW1stpar

[Chilli]

1stpar3, you have been the voice of reason, and you are correct, I do value the opinions and views of others and wish that more folks (including my wife) had the immediate ability to listen just once in a while.

I get it, that some don't want to see an awkward looking pixel with no shape representative of physical characteristics of the aircraft.  What is surprising, is that folks don't think that others should have it, even if it didn't impact what they themselves had to endure.

If this were a MSFlight Simulator, then objections over icons, icon dar, HUD displays, etc. would carry some weight.  Anything that is purely a tool or an aid to compensate for the 2 dimensional, pixel filled, and not quite real time display has limitations as to how "close to" real world experiences they can deliver, so the more the better.

I applaud HiTech for his determination to stick to period aircraft, the skins and their flight and ballistics characteristics.  Beyond that, I believe that the "recreation" of historical events has been left up to player based events. In those arenas, there are 2 sides and clearly defined missions that require "fog of war" to complete. 

In on of those events I can even personally, tell of the time I scouted for axis in a lone C2 when I spotted the large force of bombers and was able to track there advance undetected.  Main arena play however, especially during low participation hours depend on player interaction from 3 chess pieces which has the unfortunate consequence of further diluting this interaction.  I was elated to find that dot visibility had increased in beta and had carried over into AH3.  It saddens me that for whatever reason that was removed.

[Shuffler]

These people like being ambushed.

They don't like someone running from them.

They don't like it when they get shot down by flak.

They don't like it when bombers bomb things that inconvenience them.

They don't like it when someone runs away from them.

They don't love people who fly higher than whatever altitude they have deemed to be subjectively unreasonable.

They don't like it when people run into flak to avoid a fair fight.

They love when GVers complain because they fight each other in planes in a game called, get thie, ACES HIGH

Fixed   

[Shuffler]

I had a bit of fun yesterday.  Caught up with some Knights when we had a 3% advantage in numbers and they cooperated to capture some sparsely defended fields.  Then we used the NEW function  (30 minute resupplies) to undo critical damage to all of your strats. 

So, I blew up a few buildings, scattered a few defenders with 50 cal rounds and flew the equivalent of 40 minutes to factories to look for destroyed buildings to resupply.  Funny, I couldn't see the damaged buildings from the air, but I was told by the "text buffer" that I did good and 'x' number of buildings had 30 minutes less down time.

All this time there was very minimal contact with enemy players.  My entertainment, however, did not come from the deeds of my journeys, it came from communications arising from a bunch of adults from across the globe, sitting behind a monitor screen working as a team. 

That is the thing that is missing, teamwork that was in just about every engagement during beta dogfights.  In my opinion, the poor identification, FOV changes, and "FOG OF WAR" have rendered certain parts of the game in a stagnant state.  I don't have to do a survey to predict the result.

Teamwork is not allowed on knights..... ask Bob.