Author Topic: Remind me how much fun it is...  (Read 3694 times)

Offline Kingpin

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Re: Remind me how much fun it is...
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2016, 05:28:56 PM »


Unescorted? I would like to call this out, and correct this as AK's were on scene and assisted in the best manner we possibly could. Flying P40E's last night was fairly difficult considering the circumstances. As pointed out by ImaDot fast buff vs slow planes escort was fairly challenging for both groups.

Id like to point out we had 7 AK's as the escorting squad. Considering the numbers we were facing we had no choice but to tangle with the 109's as best we could to at least try and distract them, there was little we could do vs the sheer numbers we had at A13. To say they were escorted is untrue

I didn't know the bombers were using manual calibration last night.  In looking at the scores, I was really surprised by how few objects were destroyed at A13, as many bombers made it through.  With regard to the bomb calibration, I too think it should be MA standard calibration.

As far as the AK's escort job and the second attack on A13, you got a little unlucky as your bombers were spotted early in the frame by VF-17 scouts.  We knew a second set of bombers were out there and guessed your ingress route correctly.  We were resetting for that attack and calling in reinforcements just as the bombers arrived.  So, some luck and decent strategic guesswork on our side came into play, and there was nothing you could do about that.

Escorting bombers in slow planes is a difficult task and requires a lot of timing and coordination.  In cases where the bombers out-perform the fighters, the bomber leads play as big a role in the success of the escort mission as the fighter leads do.  For what it's worth, the presence of the P40s was felt.  I made a clear pass on the bombers and got one, but had a P40 about 1K behind me the whole time, who kept me from resetting for another pass. By then those fast A20s were turning for home and couldn't be caught.  Had the P40s literally been there 30 seconds earlier, our results may have been quite different. It was that close of a thing.

As an additional tip of the cap to the AK's, one of our flight leads was commenting on how disciplined and coordinated several of you were in the fight that ensued at A13.  When attacking one of your P40's, the lower one would drag back to the higher group, be cleared and then reset alt.  In watching the film, I saw it was the AK's.  One of the great things about FSO is knowing you will be up against squads who can handle themselves in a multi-con dogfight, and you guys definitely fit the bill.

A final salute to AKGreyga who must have nursed his half-wing P40 home.  I thought you were going down when I got that wing piece!  I had to pull off because Vudu was so enthusiastic about dogfighting and was pulling onto my six in his Boston!  He ultimately sacrificed himself for ya, so you owe Vudu a cold one!  ;)   :salute Vudu15 as well.

Hopefully, the upcoming frames will be equally fun but closer score-wise if MA standard calibration is re-instated.

 :salute
Kingpin
« Last Edit: October 08, 2016, 05:43:19 PM by Kingpin »
Quote from: bozon
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Offline Dantoo

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Re: Remind me how much fun it is...
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2016, 05:42:50 PM »
My whine isn't about getting there or not.  It isn't about defending fighters or escorts.  It isn't about the size of the targets.
It's about the point of flying bombers in an fso if the setup basically precludes you hitting anything anyway.  Why fly them at all?  To what purpose?

For the point tally people.

Each trio is worth 30 points and the rules say at least 12 level bombers have to fly.  If they aren't going to hit anything anyway then I suggest that the CICs do this next week:

Fly singles not trios.
Make sure you only fly 12.
Climb to a height where you can make a pass at great speed in a gentle dive.
Dump bombs somewhere near target (don't calibrate it's a waste of time and being in bomb sight keeps you out of guns).
Run home keeping a close close escort near you.  Your single will be easier to defend because it is more manouverable.
Gain landing bonus and know there is zero risk of other side bombing stuff down because they won't do it by level bombing.
If they go in low or glide bomb they will still give up more points by deaths than they will gain from target hits.

Would I do that?
Last night I flew to the target in Bostons.  It was heavily defended and our escorts had the devil of a time keeping up because speed is all a Boston has.
Attacked over the target, I couldn't release bombs effectively (had calibration) due to attacks so instead of just dumping bombs and going on home as I had earned the right to do I persevered.

Through the fighters, around the ring and back over the target, again after having to make the straight in run to get a good calibration.  Dropped with a slight cross wind and hit nothing I carefully aimed at.  Went home with about 15 fighters in tow.  Another squaddie had the same deal.  He didn't get home. 
Tally - 2 objects hit from that second pass.  3 bombers lost + landing bonus + pilot bonus not gained = lord knows.

What did it do for the defenders?  Not much.  A couple of almost defenceless targets  to shoot at.
What did it do for me to fly over the target twice and survive to land before frame end.  Absolutely bloody nothing because it was pointless taking bombs there in the first place.
I get really really tired of selective realism disguised as a desire to make bombers easier to kill.

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Offline Vudu15

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Re: Remind me how much fun it is...
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2016, 06:04:36 PM »
I lost both drones quickly and wasnt going to sit like an idiot trying to calibrate under attack I began to dive out and when cleared by AKGreyga (Thanks by the way <S>) I started my run for home. when I looked back I saw Grey was in for a bad time  I reversed in an attempt to bring some enjoyment/help someone whod helped me in turn and of course after my valiant effort was put down by 109Fs. (Which Im not upset about in the least since I went on my own terms.)

Glad to hear Greyga made it home well worth it to me. <S> Kingpin
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Offline Squire

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Re: Remind me how much fun it is...
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2016, 08:01:16 PM »
Changed calibration to MA standard which will be my default from now on. As per the original design I have enabled the 20mm on the Hurricane II. I have also moved one 4-6 squad (Duxford) to Allied.
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Offline Kanth

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Re: Remind me how much fun it is...
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2016, 08:46:39 PM »
 :aok Good to hear. Thanks.
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Offline Dantoo

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Re: Remind me how much fun it is...
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2016, 02:50:51 AM »
Yep thanks.  :aok

 I'm sure difficult calibration has a role in the game somewhere, just not certain where.  Maybe B29s over Tokyo or something.

Rgds
I get really really tired of selective realism disguised as a desire to make bombers easier to kill.

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Offline wetcat

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Re: Remind me how much fun it is...
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2016, 10:40:20 AM »
I'm sure difficult calibration has a role in the game somewhere, just not certain where.  Maybe B29s over Tokyo or something.
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Offline Kingpin

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Re: Remind me how much fun it is...
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2016, 07:30:45 PM »
Changed calibration to MA standard which will be my default from now on. As per the original design I have enabled the 20mm on the Hurricane II. I have also moved one 4-6 squad (Duxford) to Allied.

The inclusion of the 20mm armed Hurri II seems a little overboard in my opinion.  No other aircraft in this setup has close to that level of firepower.  It more than doubles the firepower of an aircraft that is unlimited in numbers.

This greatly changes the matchup balance in favor of the Allies.  Trying to even up the numbers is a good move.  However, I think the 20mm Hurri inclusion is not.

My two cents.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2016, 07:43:20 PM by Kingpin »
Quote from: bozon
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Offline TheBug

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Re: Remind me how much fun it is...
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2016, 08:07:59 PM »
This greatly changes the matchup balance in favor of the Allies. 

I'm sure the CMs are quite aware of that Kingpin.  :salute
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Online Devil 505

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Re: Remind me how much fun it is...
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2016, 08:31:14 PM »
The inclusion of the 20mm armed Hurri II seems a little overboard in my opinion.  No other aircraft in this setup has close to that level of firepower.  It more than doubles the firepower of an aircraft that is unlimited in numbers.

This greatly changes the matchup balance in favor of the Allies.  Trying to even up the numbers is a good move.  However, I think the 20mm Hurri inclusion is not.

My two cents.

I agree. At least set higher minimums for the P-40s or a max on the Hurricanes.
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Offline waystin2

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Re: Remind me how much fun it is...
« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2016, 10:43:55 AM »
I am still trying to understand how adding cannons to the Hurricanes is related to manual calibration bombing that the OP was disgusted with.  :headscratch:
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Offline Valkyrie

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Re: Remind me how much fun it is...
« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2016, 12:47:46 PM »
Difficult calibration should be used in the ETO allied heavy buff ops. Also the targets should be something of size like a strat complex so that everyone in the group can bomb on the leader as was done during the war. The 56th has used this tactic as we have only a few guys that bomb regularly and we got spectacular results. Dropping on the lead, managing your salvo size, and also delay allows for good coverage.

Online Devil 505

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Re: Remind me how much fun it is...
« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2016, 03:09:19 PM »
I am still trying to understand how adding cannons to the Hurricanes is related to manual calibration bombing that the OP was disgusted with.  :headscratch:
There were other balance issues at play besides the calibration. The logs indicate a large disparity favoring the Axis in terms of lethality based on the total kills per side. I personally think a good portion is due to bad luck by the allies and by extension, unlimited cannon-armed Hurricanes is compensating too much.
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Offline ImADot

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Re: Remind me how much fun it is...
« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2016, 05:12:18 PM »
Do the Axis planes like the 109 and 110 have cannons? Sounds like a pretty big firepower advantage over .303s and .50s.
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Online Devil 505

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Re: Remind me how much fun it is...
« Reply #29 on: October 10, 2016, 05:26:28 PM »
Spitfire Mk. V's have cannon, and the P-40E is no slouch with six .50's.  It's not like they had nothing with a knockout punch. They just weren't utilized properly.   
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