Author Topic: Tank vs ATGM duel  (Read 4268 times)

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Tank vs ATGM duel
« on: October 16, 2016, 01:38:01 PM »
My ammo last for 6 Lancasters, or one Yak3.
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Offline Zimme83

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Re: Tank vs ATGM duel
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2016, 02:34:19 PM »
Lucky for them that it wasnt a BILL...
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Offline mthrockmor

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Re: Tank vs ATGM duel
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2016, 08:16:33 PM »
That's how you do ig, sortof. They were exposed for 16 seconds. In the M1A1 we'd consistently pull up, shoot and back down in 5 secs or less. Advantage of the sight being on top of the turret.

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Offline pipz

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Re: Tank vs ATGM duel
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2016, 05:36:07 AM »
That was close!
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Re: Tank vs ATGM duel
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2016, 06:37:54 AM »
The swedish Bill system is a strike-down HEAT ATGM, like Zimme83 say it would have hit where it hurts.


My ammo last for 6 Lancasters, or one Yak3.
"And the Yak 3 ,aka the "flying Yamato"..."
-Caldera

Offline Zimme83

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Re: Tank vs ATGM duel
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2016, 06:23:02 PM »
BMP with not quite the same luck....
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Re: Tank vs ATGM duel
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2016, 05:25:16 PM »
They must have got a lucky ammo hit, normally you get time to get out before you being incincerated.
My ammo last for 6 Lancasters, or one Yak3.
"And the Yak 3 ,aka the "flying Yamato"..."
-Caldera

Offline GScholz

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Re: Tank vs ATGM duel
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2016, 04:44:54 AM »
No, not these days. If there's fuel and ammo in the vehicle it is typically instant death with modern ATGMs.

« Last Edit: October 19, 2016, 04:47:29 AM by GScholz »
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Offline Zimme83

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Re: Tank vs ATGM duel
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2016, 08:56:02 AM »
I don't agree that it is something new, and it's far from a rule that the ammo explode direct when the tank is hit. Based on the vids ive seen its more common that the ammo doesn't explode directly when the tank is hit. Often it will eventually catch fire and destroy the tank though.

That BMP was for sure packed with ammo, it was not just the ammo for its own gun that caused that explosion. Guess they were bringing supplies to the troops...
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Tank vs ATGM duel
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2016, 10:31:21 AM »
Zimme, even if that BMP miraculously had not exploded everyone in it would have been dead from blast overpressure in the crew compartment. You can't compare the damage of early/light AT weapons to modern ATGMs like that TOW II used against that BMP. An RPG-7 for example has a warhead of 0.5 kg to 0.7 kg. Early ATGMs typically had warheads in the 1-3 kg range. That TOW II has a 6 kg tandem warhead. It has more explosive content than a 155 mm artillery shell. Penetration with such a weapon into the crew compartment will invariably kill everyone in it and set off any ammunition present.

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Offline GScholz

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Re: Tank vs ATGM duel
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2016, 10:42:58 AM »
Some pretty gruesome footage from Syria. Most of the tanks blow up or brew up instantly after ATGM hits.

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Offline Serenity

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Re: Tank vs ATGM duel
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2016, 11:05:18 AM »
Zimme, even if that BMP miraculously had not exploded everyone in it would have been dead from blast overpressure in the crew compartment. You can't compare the damage of early/light AT weapons to modern ATGMs like that TOW II used against that BMP. An RPG-7 for example has a warhead of 0.5 kg to 0.7 kg. Early ATGMs typically had warheads in the 1-3 kg range. That TOW II has a 6 kg tandem warhead. It has more explosive content than a 155 mm artillery shell. Penetration with such a weapon into the crew compartment will invariably kill everyone in it and set off any ammunition present.



So, I've never seen a TOW in slow-mo before... It's detonating ABOVE the tank? What's up with that? Wouldn't you want to impact the tank directly?

Offline GScholz

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Re: Tank vs ATGM duel
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2016, 11:11:39 AM »
It's a top-attack warhead. It fires an explosively formed penetrator down through the roof of the tank.
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Offline EskimoJoe

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Re: Tank vs ATGM duel
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2016, 04:28:17 PM »
No, not these days. If there's fuel and ammo in the vehicle it is typically instant death with modern ATGMs.



In that Javelin vid, they packed the turret and everything with explosives to 'simulate' (I use the term loosely) having ammo in the tank. I gained that knowledge watching the same vid in a Javelin class given by two old dudes who have been using, enhancing, and teaching the system since it's predecessor the 'Dragon'.

One thing to keep in mind is that the T-72s and BMPs are far from modern tanks. Yes, the TOW is a design from the same time period, but has been improved for use against reactive armor and (probably) better wire-guidance systems, while the tanks you see being blown up typically have no ERA. Another design flaw with tanks like the T-72 is that (iirc) a lot of the ammo is stored in and right beneath the turret, so any penetrating hit to the center of the tank will more than likely set off all the ammo as well.

It's a top-attack warhead. It fires an explosively formed penetrator down through the roof of the tank.

I think only a certain variant of the TOW missile is air-burst. It's weird to me that it would be, because I would think there would be a little voodoo magic involved in getting the shaped-charge to detonate in the exact right spot. That being said, even with a large enough warhead the blast-overpressure can make jelly out of a crews' brains.

The Javelin is a also top-attack warhead, capable of defeating ERA.  They're both totally different systems, but I guess the main concept of hitting them where the armor is the weakest is the same.
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Tank vs ATGM duel
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2016, 06:14:24 AM »
Yes it's only the latest F-series that use the fly-over top attack warhead. Most of the TOWs in the Syrian video are Es or perhaps even old Ds.
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