Author Topic: Thoughts regarding "Admiral Kuznetsov" deployment to Syria...  (Read 7436 times)

Offline Ack-Ack

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 25260
      • FlameWarriors
Re: Thoughts regarding "Admiral Kuznetsov" deployment to Syria...
« Reply #30 on: November 04, 2016, 01:29:10 PM »
It would be awesome if pirates sortied out and took the carrier hostage.  :devil

 :rofl
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song

Offline artik

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1908
      • Blog
Re: Thoughts regarding "Admiral Kuznetsov" deployment to Syria...
« Reply #31 on: November 04, 2016, 02:57:21 PM »
it's airwing is hampered by short combat radius and inability to carry full ord load outs.

You are most likely wrong about it. There is common misconception that STOBAR is way limited. I wrote about it before, you can search.
In fact you can find pictures of MiG-29K on a board of a carrier with 3 tanks and 2 anti-ship missiles... In the video linked in this discussion there are MiGs with 3 tanks...

I think it is mostly due to misunderstanding how ski-jump works and helps: http://cppcms.com/files/skijump/

Quote
This is nothing more than a PR stunt and an attempt by Putin to show the world that Russia is still "powerful"

I think additionally it is to combat test their latest MiG-29Ks... And these are state of the art gen 4+ planes...
Artik, 101 "Red" Squadron, Israel

Offline Zimme83

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3073
Re: Thoughts regarding "Admiral Kuznetsov" deployment to Syria...
« Reply #32 on: November 04, 2016, 03:16:02 PM »
They are very limited in range due to no air-to-air refueling capability.

Overall the endurance seems very limited, its not just the carrier and the planes but escort and supply ships. Im not convinced about their capability to conduct combat operations far from a friendly port.
As for syria it would have been easier to just fly the planes from Russia and land them on one of their bases in Syria...
''The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge'' - Stephen Hawking

Offline artik

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1908
      • Blog
Re: Thoughts regarding "Admiral Kuznetsov" deployment to Syria...
« Reply #33 on: November 04, 2016, 03:42:22 PM »
They are very limited in range due to no air-to-air refueling capability.

1st of all (source Wikipedia on MiG-29K):





2nd I don't think buddy system is actually needed in the Mediterranean...

Quote
As for syria it would have been easier to just fly the planes from Russia and land them on one of their bases in Syria...

Without a doubt... But how would you train/test new procurement  :bolt: 
« Last Edit: November 04, 2016, 03:44:27 PM by artik »
Artik, 101 "Red" Squadron, Israel

Offline zack1234

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13213
Re: Thoughts regarding "Admiral Kuznetsov" deployment to Syria...
« Reply #34 on: November 04, 2016, 03:43:30 PM »
Lot of smoke coming out of that ship :rofl

I am Russian

There are no pies stored in this plane overnight

                          
The GFC
Pipz lived in the Wilderness near Ontario

Offline Skuzzy

  • Support Member
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31462
      • HiTech Creations Home Page
Re: Thoughts regarding "Admiral Kuznetsov" deployment to Syria...
« Reply #35 on: November 04, 2016, 04:09:36 PM »
1st of all (source Wikipedia on MiG-29K):

(Image removed from quote.)

That boom sure looks like it has been Photoshopped into the picture.  The lighting on it does not match the angle of lighting on the plane.  I could be wrong, but it is suspect to me.
Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
support@hitechcreations.com

Offline artik

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1908
      • Blog
Re: Thoughts regarding "Admiral Kuznetsov" deployment to Syria...
« Reply #36 on: November 04, 2016, 04:19:28 PM »
That boom sure looks like it has been Photoshopped into the picture.  The lighting on it does not match the angle of lighting on the plane.  I could be wrong, but it is suspect to me.

This one is photoshoped too?

https://youtu.be/1hliedgk01k?t=87 (Official video by UAC)

The buddy refueling system is one of the package options for MiG-29K.
Artik, 101 "Red" Squadron, Israel

Offline Skuzzy

  • Support Member
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31462
      • HiTech Creations Home Page
Re: Thoughts regarding "Admiral Kuznetsov" deployment to Syria...
« Reply #37 on: November 04, 2016, 04:38:14 PM »
This one is photoshoped too?

https://youtu.be/1hliedgk01k?t=87 (Official video by UAC)

The buddy refueling system is one of the package options for MiG-29K.

I was just saying that one image you selected did not look right.  I was not challenging the accuracy of the claim.
Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
support@hitechcreations.com

Offline Ack-Ack

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 25260
      • FlameWarriors
Re: Thoughts regarding "Admiral Kuznetsov" deployment to Syria...
« Reply #38 on: November 04, 2016, 04:56:59 PM »


Without a doubt... But how would you train/test new procurement  :bolt:

Yeah, those Russian tug boat crews need all the training they can get when the time comes to tow the carrier back to Russia..

ack-ack
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song

Offline GScholz

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8910
Re: Thoughts regarding "Admiral Kuznetsov" deployment to Syria...
« Reply #39 on: November 04, 2016, 05:16:46 PM »
Almost every major Russian combat jet can do buddy refueling.







"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline Gman

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3731
Re: Thoughts regarding "Admiral Kuznetsov" deployment to Syria...
« Reply #40 on: November 04, 2016, 05:21:19 PM »
The Kirov class ship is a far greater threat than the carrier is.  I'd wager it's S300 class SAM systems have greater range than the SU33s, maybe even the new Mig29ks do, in terms of point defense missions for the aircraft.  Even if they don't, it's probably close.  Striking power wise, the Kirov class ship has more offensive firepower than I think every aircraft on that carrier would have since even the Mig29ks are limited in terms of payload due to the nature of the non catobar ski jump deal.  Anyhow, if I was the blue team commander/SSN captain fighting that fleet, the Peter the not so Great Kirov battlecruiser would be my priority target, then the Kuznetsov.

It is kinda neat to see a Russia fleet at sea in force like the good old cold war days.  Looks like a couple Udaloys are along as escort as well.  At least the paint job is nice on the Kirov ship, ahah.  I wonder how much longer it can sail before having a major mechanical casualty, it's really a tradition for that ship to have a major issue and need to be towed to port.  I guess that's why Russia wants that Syrian port to stay in existence for them so badly, so they can tow that POS carrier there if need be while operating in the Med.  Long, long way home to Severomorsk or Ployarny by comparison.  Speaking of tug boats, the tug with the Russian fleet has its beacon on, so you can track the entire fleet on those sea going ATC like sights like flightradar but for ships.  Hah, GG Russia on the intelligence coup there.

 I do agree that the Mig29k is a pretty advanced gen 4/+ fighter, especially by Russian/Chinese standards. They really, really rushed to get the ones on board ready for this deployment.  The SU33s are still a beautiful looking aircraft, it's hard not to like it just based on the great lines and huge size.  Those Sukoi 27 class fighters are very, very large, and are really the first Russian/Soviet fighters not made for PVO that have/had decent range, at least when land based, heh.  Pretty incredible how the Su35 moves around the sky with all that size and weight, seeing that little pilot in the little cockpit with that huge airframe attached to him/it is a sight to see in real life (Abby international air show back in the 90s).

Regarding refueling, I've posted often before regarding this achilles heel of the USN - having little tanker support other than relying on the USAF land based - which sort of negates the advantages of having a CVN force in the first place, relying on land based stuff - or buddy SuperHornet tankers, which strip the squadrons of planes that should be strikers/air defense instead of hauling fuel.  It's a major item on the USN's radar, they have tossed around making the new UCAV a tanker (not sure about having a pilotless tanker, no matter how good it works..), or, the idea I like, building a dedicated tanker aircraft and basing them on the ships. They have room, the current CVNs have air wings that always are far under the max what the carrier can haul, so why not a small detachment of 4 or 6 tankers, sort of the size of the AWACS detachments.  I've seen stuff about turning the V22 into a tanker, and the tanker variant of that would be OK for the Marines and their F35B, barely, but the SuperHornets slowest controlable/stable speed for refueling is near the max that the V22 tanker idea could fly, so I still think a dedicated twin jet or fast turbo prop tanker bird would be the way to go.  The Superhornet has pretty poor range compared to the past attack aircraft the USN had (A6, F14 even), and the legacy Hornet is far, far worse.  Need range, and since the USN is stuck with the SH, and not getting the F14 back, and the new F35C is no long range bird either...tankers are a must IMO, as relying on land based tankers, especially far out in the Pacific, South China sea, etc, will be a poor idea.

Even the old S3 Viking had a proposed tanker variant that would have held 6x what a single SuperHornet could using 3 of the largest drop tanks they carried, so I think building a dedicated tanker, even that size, but hopefully larger than the S3 should be able to carry 15k+ gallons of fuel for offloading to strikers and fighters.  Even the new E2D Hawkeye AWACS has refueling capability, so having a tanker to help keep these very advanced now and extremely important aircraft airborne and on station longer, is a critical issue IMO.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2016, 05:42:14 PM by Gman »

Offline ghi

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2669
Re: Thoughts regarding "Admiral Kuznetsov" deployment to Syria...
« Reply #41 on: November 04, 2016, 08:36:59 PM »
Put in is awesome

Better fear him;  from what i read, the outcome of this war is to be decided  by "flying scrolls"/missiles  not boats.
Back in 90s during his first term, the orthodox communities identified him as the "the King of the North ", "the one who was ,won't be but will come again ", and wrotte about his  2nd term. There are churches in Russia worshipping him as a reincarnated saint.
He is immortal,  :noid chosen  for a mission to stand against the Antichrist and destroy the Babylon.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/vladimir-putin/12052939/is-vladimir-putin-immortal-conspiracy-theory.html

Offline GScholz

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8910
Re: Thoughts regarding "Admiral Kuznetsov" deployment to Syria...
« Reply #42 on: November 04, 2016, 10:35:03 PM »
Immortal lizard.

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline Zimme83

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3073
Re: Thoughts regarding "Admiral Kuznetsov" deployment to Syria...
« Reply #43 on: November 05, 2016, 03:47:24 AM »
1st of all (source Wikipedia on MiG-29K):

(Image removed from quote.)



2nd I don't think buddy system is actually needed in the Mediterranean...

Without a doubt... But how would you train/test new procurement  :bolt:

Oh, had missed that. But nevertheless: the ability to conduct long range strikes is very limited and it will be very hard to perform long range operations over any longer period of time.
Plus that they have no AWACS and that is a very big limitation for Russian fighters, bigger than for ex American.

As said above: the cruisers w SAM:s and cruise missiles etc is prob a much bigger threat.
''The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge'' - Stephen Hawking

Offline zack1234

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13213
Re: Thoughts regarding "Admiral Kuznetsov" deployment to Syria...
« Reply #44 on: November 05, 2016, 04:08:17 AM »
I would own him in a fist fight!
There are no pies stored in this plane overnight

                          
The GFC
Pipz lived in the Wilderness near Ontario