Author Topic: The gumbo of stutters, pauses, freeze and other ingredients  (Read 31178 times)

Offline Pudgie

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1280
Re: The gumbo of stutters, pauses, freeze and other ingredients
« Reply #315 on: September 04, 2017, 09:21:06 AM »
another approach would be to look how skuzzy configures his boxes, bios settings, drivers, services etc and work from there?

Check out page 3, reply #37 of this thread...................

 :salute
Win 10 Home 64, AMD Ryzen 9 3900X, MSI MPG X570 Gaming Plus, GSkill FlareX 32Gb DDR4 3200 4x8Gb, XFX Radeon RX 6900X 16Gb, Samsung 950 Pro 512Gb NVMe PCI-E SSD (boot), Samsung 850 Pro 128Gb SATA SSD (pagefile), Creative SoundBlaster X7 DAC-AMP, Intel LAN, SeaSonic PRIME Gold 850W, all CLWC'd

Offline SirNuke

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1297
Re: The gumbo of stutters, pauses, freeze and other ingredients
« Reply #316 on: September 04, 2017, 02:01:05 PM »
I've seen that post my point is that skuzzy probably runs a much cleaner system than the average joe and that may be why he can't reproduce the stutter?

Offline Bizman

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9532
Re: The gumbo of stutters, pauses, freeze and other ingredients
« Reply #317 on: September 05, 2017, 01:09:20 AM »
I've seen that post my point is that skuzzy probably runs a much cleaner system than the average joe and that may be why he can't reproduce the stutter?

There's many of us who run quite a clean system and still get pauses.

Skuzzy once revealed the method he installs Windows on his personal systems but I don't know if that's how the HTC computers are built. Anyway, his idea is to tailor the installation media according to the actual system. A standard Windows package contains generic drivers for nearly all possible components so that the system can be booted for dedicated driver installation. However, that affects mostly boot times when the system fumbles through the repository to find the right drivers for each present component. 
Quote from: BaldEagl, applies to myself, too
I've got an older system by today's standards that still runs the game well by my standards.

Kotisivuni

Offline Skuzzy

  • Support Member
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31462
      • HiTech Creations Home Page
Re: The gumbo of stutters, pauses, freeze and other ingredients
« Reply #318 on: September 05, 2017, 07:00:52 AM »
My personal computer is configured very differently.  I stick to the defaults on our work systems, but also cut down unnecessary background processes.  My work computer is not as clean as it could be, but it also does not have much installed on it.

There are so many intrusive applications out there today.

There is one major change I do make with our systems.  We run Windows 7 Pro, (HiTech has one Windows 10 system) and I turn off Aero and revert to the classic Windows desktop.  This frees up some DirectX resources.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 05:51:27 AM by Skuzzy »
Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
support@hitechcreations.com

Offline Pudgie

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1280
Re: The gumbo of stutters, pauses, freeze and other ingredients
« Reply #319 on: September 05, 2017, 11:40:15 AM »
Update:

Worked w\ CPU as follows:

Enabled High Performance Power Plan so CPU will run at full clocks (even though AMD Cool & Quiet is still enabled in UEFI) then ran the game......played for approx 25 mins w\ steady CPu clocks @ 3.7 Ghz.........but got a screen freeze to still occur.

Got an idea............

Went & enabled the Balanced Power Plan again (this power plan's Powercfg.exe tables has been modified to allow the CPU to still be controlled by the OS thru AMD's Cool & Quiet) & reset the PERFINCTHRESHOLD & PERFDECTHRESHOLD parameters (CPU usage parameters that instruct the OS to instruct AMD's Cool & Quiet\TurboCore to ramp up\down CPU power\frequency) from 40\30 to 30\25 (lowered the adjustment threshold settings so that the OS will instruct Cool & Quiet to allow TurboCore to load up the CPU once the usage avg exceeds >30%...as long as the CPU temps stay below the TDP threshold (80*C) & will shut down TurboCore to allow Cool & Quiet to throttle CPU power\frequency if the CPU temps exceed the TDP limit OR if the CPU avg core usage recedes <25%) due to thought that the 40\30 setting range may be still causing CPU power\frequency to be oscillated due to CPU core usage dipping back below the 40% upper range in which Cool & Quiet might be trying to throttle CPU on a percentage basis when usage falls in between the 2 control points of 40\30 (which I have witnessed happening from time to time while playing). To test these settings properly I also went in the WBPP advanced settings & lowered the min processor power % setting from 75% to 50% (at this setting Cool & Quiet will throttle the CPU to the lowest power\frequency table setting @ 2.2 Ghz so any further lowering of the min processor % setting in the WBPP advanced settings is useless).

Ran the game & I immediately noticed that I had hit a setting curve that really made a difference on the Ryzen 7 1800X's performance. Evidently the CPU had been throttling but it isn't throttling now......CPU is running very stable @ 3.7 Ghz on all 8 CPU cores w\o fluctuation w\ TurboCore applying full power @ 1.45v-1.5v & CPU operating temps never dropping below 49*C at any time. Most of the time the CPU core temps held between 52*C-58*C (prior setting @ 40\30 CPU operating temps ranged between 44*C-52*C w\ CPU clocks bounce between 3.2Ghz-3.7Ghz) so I now know that the CPU is really running at full power now. The game ran much, much better than it has for some time so I've got some more performance to enjoy now! Played for approx 35-40 mins w\ all going good.......but then a screen freeze\pause occurred right as I had leveled out into level flight but the freeze duration was much shorter than the others so I think I'm starting to gain on it but time will tell.

Ongoing......................

FYI........................

 :salute

Update:

Still working this issue thru the CPU side, but since the initial work as laid out above I have only witnessed 1 screen freeze\pause occur from that time until now so this is a good sign of making some progress......on my end of this subject.

I did find out that when using the Windows TM (Task Manager) running in the foreground (set to "Always Stay on Top") while AHIII Dx11 version was running (used this to monitor my CPU & Ethernet operations in real time), AHIII Dx11 would run in Windowed Mode on my monitor w\o any issues at all.......and run w\o a screen freeze\pause occurring......hhhmmmm......

Or maybe AHIII Dx11 APPEARS to be running in Windowed Mode but it isn't...........but I definitely witnessed AHIII Dx11 game running w\o any issues or any lack of game functionality within a Windows pane w\ Windows TM open & set to Always Stay on Top which clearly indicates that Windows is in the foreground w\ AHIII running within it........

Curious now......just how does the VR code actually function in the game concerning display output? Does VR run in full screen mode (Windows relegated to the background) or does it run in Windowed Mode (Windows running in the foreground) but w\o the pane being visual when displayed thru the headset?

Interesting as it was my understanding that AHIII wouldn't run in Windowed Mode, only in full screen........maybe I misunderstood...........

Another item of interest to read up on concerning VR...................

Anyway the TM graphs did show that my Ethernet was running very smooth & stable w\ an occasional spike every now & then but not very high or long in duration so this was a good thing & confirmed the work that a local CenturyLink tech (who was a gamer himself as I found out from conversation w\ him when this tech came out to the house on a service call placed by Mrs Pudgie during a time when CenturyLink was having line issues & was installing line\system upgrades where found warranted) was indeed working (he told me that he had made some changes somewhere in the CenturyLink system to enhance the ADSL service to my line after he saw my setup & told me to call him direct if we had any more service related issues) along w\ me rerouting a spare phone line that wasn't being used to connect Mrs. Pudgie's AIO & got it off the ADSL line so this was good news. The CPU graphs also verified that the latest Powercfg CPU power control setting changes that I made to the WBPP (Windows Balanced Power Plan) were maintaining the CPU constant at full CPU power\clocks while under running game load & would only clock down when the game was exited back out to the desktop so this is now handled.

The new Sunix USB-to-PCI-E add-in card should be here tomorrow & will continue to monitor my box afterwards.

Ongoing..................

 :salute
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 11:45:38 AM by Pudgie »
Win 10 Home 64, AMD Ryzen 9 3900X, MSI MPG X570 Gaming Plus, GSkill FlareX 32Gb DDR4 3200 4x8Gb, XFX Radeon RX 6900X 16Gb, Samsung 950 Pro 512Gb NVMe PCI-E SSD (boot), Samsung 850 Pro 128Gb SATA SSD (pagefile), Creative SoundBlaster X7 DAC-AMP, Intel LAN, SeaSonic PRIME Gold 850W, all CLWC'd

Offline SirNuke

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1297
Re: The gumbo of stutters, pauses, freeze and other ingredients
« Reply #320 on: September 05, 2017, 01:11:48 PM »
I've seen other game recommending to run fullscreen windowed for best performance

Offline Pudgie

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1280
Re: The gumbo of stutters, pauses, freeze and other ingredients
« Reply #321 on: September 05, 2017, 08:52:03 PM »
Update:

After working some other items it's getting better...............

Went on HWINFO web site, entered the forum there & read thru the BBS. Learned some things about this piece of software that also may have had some small part to play w\ the screen pause\freezes..........

1. Shut down all HWINFO32 settings that were specifically for Nvidia graphics cards so HWINFO32 wouldn't try to be using these w\ my Radeon. This was done.
2. Found that AMD has issues w\ their own monitoring ADL API that can cause issues w\ HWINFO32 reading GPU temps & usage levels on AMD\ATI graphics cards. Recommended to disable this & use HWINFO32's own direct-GPU low-level access API for stability. This was done.
3. Found that there was a newer version (5.56) that had improved sensor monitoring capabilities & stability improvements w\ AMD\ATI graphics cards, had improved AMD Ryzen CPU support & were updated to support AMD Threadripper CPU's\X399 chipsets. Updated to 5.56 & reset all settings as prior in 5.50.

Went up in AHIII Dx11 & played around for a while & noted that the game ran very well w\ so far nary a screen freeze\pause........will continue to test this out to verify. From prior results this may be a placebo effect but so far, so good.

Ongoing...................... .....

 :salute
Win 10 Home 64, AMD Ryzen 9 3900X, MSI MPG X570 Gaming Plus, GSkill FlareX 32Gb DDR4 3200 4x8Gb, XFX Radeon RX 6900X 16Gb, Samsung 950 Pro 512Gb NVMe PCI-E SSD (boot), Samsung 850 Pro 128Gb SATA SSD (pagefile), Creative SoundBlaster X7 DAC-AMP, Intel LAN, SeaSonic PRIME Gold 850W, all CLWC'd

Offline Bizman

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9532
Re: The gumbo of stutters, pauses, freeze and other ingredients
« Reply #322 on: September 06, 2017, 01:10:11 AM »
I've seen other game recommending to run fullscreen windowed for best performance

That might be just a trick to reduce the pixel count of the actual game. Less pixels equals to less load for the system. The frames and Taskbar can easily take some 10% off the active screen area. I don't know if pixel count correlates directly with frame rates, anyway it can be enough to take you above a certain threshold like 30 FPS which can be considered somewhat of a minimum for fluent playability.

Take the above with a grain of salt, it's merely logical thinking instead of hard facts and in-depth knowledge.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 01:12:29 AM by Bizman »
Quote from: BaldEagl, applies to myself, too
I've got an older system by today's standards that still runs the game well by my standards.

Kotisivuni

Offline 1stpar3

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3698
Re: The gumbo of stutters, pauses, freeze and other ingredients
« Reply #323 on: September 06, 2017, 01:53:21 AM »
Update:

Still working this issue thru the CPU side, but since the initial work as laid out above I have only witnessed 1 screen freeze\pause occur from that time until now so this is a good sign of making some progress......on my end of this subject.

I did find out that when using the Windows TM (Task Manager) running in the foreground (set to "Always Stay on Top") while AHIII Dx11 version was running (used this to monitor my CPU & Ethernet operations in real time), AHIII Dx11 would run in Windowed Mode on my monitor w\o any issues at all.......and run w\o a screen freeze\pause occurring......hhhmmmm......

Or maybe AHIII Dx11 APPEARS to be running in Windowed Mode but it isn't...........but I definitely witnessed AHIII Dx11 game running w\o any issues or any lack of game functionality within a Windows pane w\ Windows TM open & set to Always Stay on Top which clearly indicates that Windows is in the foreground w\ AHIII running within it........

Curious now......just how does the VR code actually function in the game concerning display output? Does VR run in full screen mode (Windows relegated to the background) or does it run in Windowed Mode (Windows running in the foreground) but w\o the pane being visual when displayed thru the headset?

Interesting as it was my understanding that AHIII wouldn't run in Windowed Mode, only in full screen........maybe I misunderstood...........

Another item of interest to read up on concerning VR...................

Anyway the TM graphs did show that my Ethernet was running very smooth & stable w\ an occasional spike every now & then but not very high or long in duration so this was a good thing & confirmed the work that a local CenturyLink tech (who was a gamer himself as I found out from conversation w\ him when this tech came out to the house on a service call placed by Mrs Pudgie during a time when CenturyLink was having line issues & was installing line\system upgrades where found warranted) was indeed working (he told me that he had made some changes somewhere in the CenturyLink system to enhance the ADSL service to my line after he saw my setup & told me to call him direct if we had any more service related issues) along w\ me rerouting a spare phone line that wasn't being used to connect Mrs. Pudgie's AIO & got it off the ADSL line so this was good news. The CPU graphs also verified that the latest Powercfg CPU power control setting changes that I made to the WBPP (Windows Balanced Power Plan) were maintaining the CPU constant at full CPU power\clocks while under running game load & would only clock down when the game was exited back out to the desktop so this is now handled.

The new Sunix USB-to-PCI-E add-in card should be here tomorrow & will continue to monitor my box afterwards.

Ongoing..................

 :salute
I cant remember when the last time I had a stutter or micro freeze, in VR. Not sure why that is, as it runs the Headset and a "windowed" mirror screen also. Maybe its because the "TRUE Display" is running windowed as per your observations with reg. AH3? The Headset isnt recognized as a "Display" device so...could be?
"Life is short,break the rules,forgive quickly,kiss slowly,love truly,laugh uncontrollably,and never regret anything that made you smile."  “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”- Mark Twain

Offline Skuzzy

  • Support Member
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31462
      • HiTech Creations Home Page
Re: The gumbo of stutters, pauses, freeze and other ingredients
« Reply #324 on: September 06, 2017, 05:53:50 AM »
Actually, running windowed (frame around the application), in DirectX, imposes a lot more overhead.
Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
support@hitechcreations.com

Offline Bizman

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9532
Re: The gumbo of stutters, pauses, freeze and other ingredients
« Reply #325 on: September 06, 2017, 10:40:19 AM »
Actually, running windowed (frame around the application), in DirectX, imposes a lot more overhead.

Makes me glad I added the salt clause.  :cheers:
Quote from: BaldEagl, applies to myself, too
I've got an older system by today's standards that still runs the game well by my standards.

Kotisivuni

Offline Pudgie

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1280
Re: The gumbo of stutters, pauses, freeze and other ingredients
« Reply #326 on: September 07, 2017, 12:55:04 PM »
Update:

After working thru all this on my box I have actually made some minor progress.

As for resolving the screen pause\freeze issue completely I haven't, but from this work I have successfully affected the frequency (slowed them down) at which they occur & have somewhat narrowed the parameters in which to expect 1 to occur.

Since doing all this work it has demonstrated that the CPU processing efficiency will affect their occurrence.....the more efficient the CPU is at processing instructions (which also includes ISR's & DPC's) the less these will show up as there will be less chance of a buffer underrun happening if these are processed as fast as the CPU can process them & get the data in the L3\system mem cache to reduce the amount of time that the CPU isn't handling the other tasks that also need to be done. This doesn't explain the actual cause but can certainly reduce the issue & at the same time increase system productivity.....which is a good thing.
The next item is that after doing all this I have seen that the pattern of these screen pauses\freezes occurring has narrowed somewhat in that I have noted that when playing the game now, as long as the gameplay sets up scenarios that call for my box to increase performance due to increased work loads, I haven't witnessed a screen pause\freeze to occur & as long as the high work loads remain which maintain the high CPU\GPU work loads I haven't witnessed a screen freeze\pause occur. It is only now during the transition time from high CPU\GPU work loads to lower CPU\GPU work loads is when I have noted screen pauses\freezes to occur, not all the time do they appear during this slowing down period but the pattern does show the odds of 1 occurring during this particular time in gameplay is very high relative to any other time. My MSI AB graphs have consistently captured this happening but in times past the CPU side (CPU usage % clearly drops off on the SINGLE heavily loaded CPU core ONLY that the game threads are being processed on when the GPU clocks & FPS drop & GPU frametime spikes up then ramps back up when the GPU side does on recovery) didn't show itself as clear as it is now. I do know that AMD's Cool & Quiet isn't the cause as they still occur regardless of whether this is enabled or disabled in UEFI.

The game doesn't stop running, sound is never interrupted, control input is good, only the screen (video) is affected. Latency Mon is showing the only drivers to be showing any significant ISR's\DPC's are the Windows Driver Mode Framework Runtime(wdf01000.sys), Directx Graphics Kernel (dxgkrnl.sys) showing no ISR's but several DPC's & the Windows NT Kernel & System--the heart of Windows OS-- (ntoskrnl.exe) to a lesser degree showing no ISR's but a few DPC's. These are the top 3 drivers that consistently show the highest instances of ISR's\DPC's....everything else is FAR less.

I loaded the AMD Crimson 17.8.1 drivers specifically due to the release notes stating that AMD had fixed intermittent crashing in GTA V.....this game exhibits the exact same graphics screen pausing\freezing as AHIII Dx11 is showing in the exact same manner so I was hoping that this "GTA V fix" would resolve this in AHIII.....and as happened in times past.......appeared to had done so but they eventually came back. There is a tool developed to access vUEFI's for AMD Polaris & Vega cards called WattTool that can be used to make changes but I haven't ran into anything to allow access to AMD Fiji cards yet.

In closing I have a good sense of what is not causing these from a program standpoint. Looking thru the Services side of Windows I have reset a fair amount of these services to "Manual" once I checked them for any dependencies on other services or other services needing them to be active & all is operating very well w\o issues & Windows still checks out as clean so whatever the cause is IMHO it has to be something somewhere in the graphics interaction pipeline between the CPU thru to the GPU w\ anything else going on being an influencer\aggravator to the actual cause. In TM my box shows to have anywhere from 115 to 125 processes running in Windows 10 Home so I will need to be doing a LOT of Bing'ing my Windows 10 services to get more indepth detail on which ones that I can safely disable to lower this some but to date I have found no ill effects from all these processes running so far that I can tell.

Gonna move on to other things for now. Will revisit this after some more study time.

 :salute
Win 10 Home 64, AMD Ryzen 9 3900X, MSI MPG X570 Gaming Plus, GSkill FlareX 32Gb DDR4 3200 4x8Gb, XFX Radeon RX 6900X 16Gb, Samsung 950 Pro 512Gb NVMe PCI-E SSD (boot), Samsung 850 Pro 128Gb SATA SSD (pagefile), Creative SoundBlaster X7 DAC-AMP, Intel LAN, SeaSonic PRIME Gold 850W, all CLWC'd

Offline Skuzzy

  • Support Member
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31462
      • HiTech Creations Home Page
Re: The gumbo of stutters, pauses, freeze and other ingredients
« Reply #327 on: September 13, 2017, 10:19:45 AM »
Looks like some of you may be experiencing this on top of everything else.

A Windows 10 update is causing stutters and pauses in games.

https://www.onmsft.com/news/microsoft-finally-confirms-game-stuttering-problems-in-windows-10-creators-update-says-fixes-are-coming
Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
support@hitechcreations.com

Offline SysError

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1009
Re: The gumbo of stutters, pauses, freeze and other ingredients
« Reply #328 on: September 14, 2017, 01:37:58 PM »
Looks like some of you may be experiencing this on top of everything else.

A Windows 10 update is causing stutters and pauses in games.

https://www.onmsft.com/news/microsoft-finally-confirms-game-stuttering-problems-in-windows-10-creators-update-says-fixes-are-coming

This appears to be exactly what is impacting me.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,388923.15.html

Yesterday I had about 2 hours to get on line and play, however, when I got on, the game became unplayable.  I checked and an update was running.  The update ran for over an hour and in the end I just gave up waiting. 

I guess that from now on I will try to turn on my game PC 2 to 3 hours before I get on AH3 (it stays off for weeks at a time) and hope that that takes care of the issue for me.   :old:


BTW: Great find on article and thanks for posting.   :aok
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 01:41:40 PM by SysError »
=======================
SysError

Dante's Crew

Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate

Offline Skuzzy

  • Support Member
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31462
      • HiTech Creations Home Page
Re: The gumbo of stutters, pauses, freeze and other ingredients
« Reply #329 on: September 14, 2017, 01:47:00 PM »
Also, take note when a pause/long stutter happens and see if the clipboard is up at the time of the occurrence.
Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
support@hitechcreations.com