Author Topic: The gumbo of stutters, pauses, freeze and other ingredients  (Read 34053 times)

Offline DaddyAce

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1248
Re: The gumbo of stutters, pauses, freeze and other ingredients
« Reply #90 on: November 26, 2016, 02:33:52 PM »
Pudgie,  Here is some more AB data I collected last night as promised.  Running DX 11, graphics settings full on.  You'll see a few frame time spikes, which correspond with CPU usage spikes.  In the event Skuzzy, Pudgie, or any of you other guys who understand this a lot more than I do, happen to find this useful, I do have a corresponding film file I can get to you too if you want it.

Cheers!

 :salute

Offline Pudgie

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1280
Re: The gumbo of stutters, pauses, freeze and other ingredients
« Reply #91 on: November 26, 2016, 02:38:24 PM »
Yes, I thought it could possibly be the SLI method, so I tried five different modes and still get the pause-and-play hesitations. You seem to be saying that petit-freeze and screen-pause are two different things, but they are the same thing to me.

What caused me to give up trying to configure the game to run without this problem was when I ran the game on a top end workstation system and still got the same events. The game runs great otherwise and looks amazing.

Hi Chalenge,

From all my testing I believe that they all are a result of the lower than normal CPU\GPU core loading due to the AHIII game client running under Dx11...in this aspect they are all caused by the same. As for the petite freezing I also was able to isolate this particular aspect to be more affected by the advent of Intel's CEIST being active (a symptom of the cause), which is also activated by low CPU core loading, but when I used CPU core affinity to reduce the amount of CPU cores available to be used w\ the game under Dx11 w\ CEIST enabled this also raised the CPU core loading on the CPU cores being used enough to stop CEIST from throttling the CPU core power\frequency which stopped the GPU micro hesitations from causing the petite freezes on my box as well (very noticeable thru the GPU frametiming graph line in MSI Afterburner as well as visually while in game). If I used 1 CPU core or more than 4 CPU cores the petite freezes came back but for different reasons but I could still see a slight difference in the GPU frametime graph line between 2 CPU cores being used vs 3 or 4 w\ the GPU frametime line being the cleanest when 2 CPU cores were being used.....which lines up w\ HTC's statement of the client being written to use 2 CPU cores. This tells me that the game threading is optimized on 2 highly loaded CPU cores and using more than 2 CPU cores starts to introduce unwanted CPU latency due to the OS wasting time parsing game threads across all these CPU cores which shows up at the GPU thru the frametime graph line. This testing has shown me the need for the AHIII game client to have CPU core affinity written into it to maintain game stability across modern platforms as CPU core counts are only gonna grow...........

But neither method has gotten the CPU core usage up enough under Dx11 to stop the screen pausing as from all my testing under the methods at my disposal I haven't recorded a screen pause occurring when the CPU core usage %, regardless of the number of CPU cores being used from 2 cores up to 6 (I have Hyperthreading disabled on my I7 5820K CPU), if the CPU core usage stays above 35% on the highest loaded CPU core while the game is running.....only when the CPU core usage drops below this mark is when a screen pause has occurred. This is the only data that I have found to be consistent w\ this happening on my box to date. But until I can get the AHIII game client running under Dx11 to consistently maintain CPU core loading to keep it consistently above this 35% mark to then prove that this IS the main issue can I make the call. So far I cannot make this happen on my end unless I reduce the CPU core usage to 1 CPU core then I've gotten everything else negative to start showing back up due to 1 CPU core w\o Hyperthreading enabled ain't gonna cut it running AHIII game client. Using 2 CPU cores the best I have gotten is 60%-70% but the game has to be very busy along w\ a high texture count map loaded as well or it won't stay there and will drop back below this mark. Haven't witnessed this occurring as soon as it lowers below 35%....have seen the CPU core usage be as low as 9% when a screen pause occurred but 34% is the highest recorded CPU core usage I've noted when a screen pause did occur thus I use 35% as the threshold for now.....................

So in short I agree w\ you on this but I believe that the true source is due to the lower than normal CPU core loading derived from the AHIII game client, which was optimized to run under Dx9, being ported to run under Dx11 since the VR coding was added to the client as when I've compared the recorded CPU AND GPU core loading of the AHIII game client being run on both Dx API's the difference is very large and noticeable in favor of Dx9 showing to load the CPU\GPU FAR more than Dx11 does thus I also believe this is why the AHIII client run under Dx9 runs w\o all these petite freezes\screen pauses showing up on my box.

All other items that we've all discovered, brought to the table are but symptoms of the central issue as this low CPU core loading can affect ALL the other devices operation as well and cause a domino effect.....not that the other devices don't need to be looked into. Since going thru all this I've found quite a medley of issues concerning my broadband equipment on my end that didn't help w\ the situation either so I've got some good out of doing all this on my end as well.

This is where I'm coming down on all this after the work I've expended into diagnosing this problem on my end.

Other than all this the game does run excellent on my box as well whether under Dx11 or Dx9.

Since shutting down CEIST in my UEFI all I see happening now is the screen pausing every once in a while...........

So as you I'm pretty much at my end of all this and will be playing AHIII under Dx9 going forward as I don't use a VR headset so am not wetted to using Dx11 exclusively but I really want to run the game under Dx11 due to the graphics performance that I've seen w\ my Fury X running under Dx11 vs Dx9 but the screen pausing gets very old and does interrupt game play.

But from discovering what I have noted concerning my set up I will also be setting the CPU core affinity to 2 CPU cores on my box when I do play going forward........

 :salute

Win 10 Home 64, AMD Ryzen 9 3900X, MSI MPG X570 Gaming Plus, GSkill FlareX 32Gb DDR4 3200 4x8Gb, XFX Radeon RX 6900X 16Gb, Samsung 950 Pro 512Gb NVMe PCI-E SSD (boot), Samsung 850 Pro 128Gb SATA SSD (pagefile), Creative SoundBlaster X7 DAC-AMP, Intel LAN, SeaSonic PRIME Gold 850W, all CLWC'd

Offline Pudgie

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1280
Re: The gumbo of stutters, pauses, freeze and other ingredients
« Reply #92 on: November 26, 2016, 03:55:34 PM »
Pudgie,  Here is some more AB data I collected last night as promised.  Running DX 11, graphics settings full on.  You'll see a few frame time spikes, which correspond with CPU usage spikes.  In the event Skuzzy, Pudgie, or any of you other guys who understand this a lot more than I do, happen to find this useful, I do have a corresponding film file I can get to you too if you want it.

Cheers!

 :salute

Hi DaddyAce,

From looking at your snip of your MSI AB graph I can see 2 instances of your box going thru a screen pause where the screen graphics just stopped for a sec then resumed motion. Note the 1 GPU frametime spike to the left and the 1 in the center that also lines up w\ the GPU clock speed drop as well as the GPU FPS drop which something caused the GPU to hesitate then resume. Also note following this down to the CPU core usage lines, especially Core1 which is the heaviest used CPU core on your box (just so you know Core 1 and Core 3 are your CPU's 2 physical CPU cores....Core2 and Core4 are 2 logical CPU cores created by hyperthreading being enabled in your mobo UEFI\BIOS....this why your Intel I3-6100 2-core CPU is showing 4 CPU cores in this graph so the OS thinks you have a 4-core CPU and will try to parse game threads across them all when it is actually using the CPU core wait time from running 1 thread on 1 of your CPU's physical cores that is waiting on something to finish executing this thread to start work on another thread waiting in the queue to be run...so in short parsing 2 active threads across a single CPU physical core....this is hyperthreading and how it works) you should see to the left a large CPU usage down spike in the graph line and in the center you can clearly see the CPU usage dropping off and see the CPU usage down spike that is clearly below the 35% usage line gauging by the timeline just to the left of the center spike showing the CPU usage % down to 42% from a high of better than 75% then going back up after the screen pause.

Now the 1 that I see on the left side of your graph I have never witnessed a screen pause happening when the CPU usage % was that high so that 1 has caught my interest. All the ones that I have witnessed and captured on my end were represented by the 1 I see in the center of your graph.

Otherwise your components are showing to be working well w\ AHIII running under Dx11. If you're seeing any of the petite freezes you might look into disabling the Intel CEIST in your mobo UEFI\BIOS if you haven't done so already and see if they stop occurring for you. You can also look into disabling Hyperthreading in your UEFI\BIOS and then check to see if they go away as well.

That is if you've a mind to try all this......................... ..

Hope this helps you out.

 :salute

PS---The screen pausing from my testing is showing to be created from issues at the CPU level and not at the GPU itself but shows to affect the GPU operation as noted thru the GPU frametiming graph line. I have gone thru at least 7 Crimson driver version upgrades w\ none of them showing to have any part in creating this issue or arresting this issue to date.....and so I don't see the Nvidia graphics drivers as a potential source of issue from looking at your graph as well. Forgot to put this in my posting earlier.........

 :salute
« Last Edit: November 26, 2016, 05:56:04 PM by Pudgie »
Win 10 Home 64, AMD Ryzen 9 3900X, MSI MPG X570 Gaming Plus, GSkill FlareX 32Gb DDR4 3200 4x8Gb, XFX Radeon RX 6900X 16Gb, Samsung 950 Pro 512Gb NVMe PCI-E SSD (boot), Samsung 850 Pro 128Gb SATA SSD (pagefile), Creative SoundBlaster X7 DAC-AMP, Intel LAN, SeaSonic PRIME Gold 850W, all CLWC'd

Offline DaddyAce

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1248
Re: The gumbo of stutters, pauses, freeze and other ingredients
« Reply #93 on: November 26, 2016, 05:09:52 PM »
Hi Pudgie,

Thanks much for your analysis; you're a heck of a resource to have here!   :aok

I enjoy learning about this stuff, which is part of the reason I built this machine.  I was wondering about the 4 cpu graphs and figured they must have represented the Cores and threads, but didn't know the specifics, thank you for explaining that!

Yes, those spikes corresponded with brief screen freezes.  I'll likely pass this along to my puter engineer son and get his take on what i'd be getting into if I mess with the UEFI\BIOS, but I imagine it's not too risky.  I'm familiar enough with the bios to know there's a return to default setting as well as a physical jumper to rest the bios if I really get into deep doo doo.  I also finally earlier today sent your question about his comment about serial processing of internet data.  Right now he's in Malaysia, so on quite a different schedule, and likely also busy with his web site with all the sale stuff, so I'll get back to you if he get's me a reply....and I'll also keep you posted if I give it a try; but my sense is hey why not, it's always fun to learn, with the caveat that it would not be a good timing for me to lose a lot of time right now if I screw something up too badly.

 :salute
« Last Edit: November 26, 2016, 05:12:36 PM by DaddyAce »

Offline TheBug

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5652
Re: The gumbo of stutters, pauses, freeze and other ingredients
« Reply #94 on: November 27, 2016, 09:18:30 AM »
Is there a fix for the cloud shadow flickering?  Other than shutting off shadows?  Noticed it real bad in DX9 last night, don't recall seeing it before though.  Switched to DX11 and was far less pronounced, but I get screen freezes with 11.  For now I will just run 9 without shadows, but was wondering if anyone might have a quick fix.  :salute
“It's a big ocean, you don't have to find the enemy if you don't want to."
  -Richard O'Kane

Offline DaddyAce

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1248
Re: The gumbo of stutters, pauses, freeze and other ingredients
« Reply #95 on: November 27, 2016, 02:48:02 PM »
..... If you're seeing any of the petite freezes you might look into disabling the Intel CEIST in your mobo UEFI\BIOS if you haven't done so already and see if they stop occurring for you. You can also look into disabling Hyperthreading in your UEFI\BIOS and then check to see if they go away as well......

I tried this, was drop dead simple to turn off/on in Bios, but didn't seem to affect my petite freezes....but not a big deal for me becasue they are quick and don't happen often.  But thanks for  tip, worth a try Pudgie!

Also, heard from my son regarding your question about his "serial processing" comment, his main was that when running AH3  online "....there is more information. The location and speed of enemy plans, and especially their bullets. And everything needs to stay in sync between you, the server, and every other player, so that adds extra demands."

 :salute

Offline Chalenge

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15179
Re: The gumbo of stutters, pauses, freeze and other ingredients
« Reply #96 on: November 27, 2016, 04:27:25 PM »
Turn OFF SuperFetch.

And keep an eye on it. I turned mine off back in the beginning (AH2 days) and some update (probably Anniversary) turned it back on.

You may still see some hiccups when you make graphic detail changes, and other clipboard operations, but they will be significantly reduced.
If you like the Sick Puppy Custom Sound Pack the please consider contributing for future updates by sending a months dues to Hitech Creations for account "Chalenge." Every little bit helps.

Offline lyric1

  • Skinner Team
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10632
Re: The gumbo of stutters, pauses, freeze and other ingredients
« Reply #97 on: November 28, 2016, 01:15:46 AM »
Turn OFF SuperFetch.

And keep an eye on it. I turned mine off back in the beginning (AH2 days) and some update (probably Anniversary) turned it back on.

You may still see some hiccups when you make graphic detail changes, and other clipboard operations, but they will be significantly reduced.

Did not help in my case.

Offline VoX

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 344
Re: The gumbo of stutters, pauses, freeze and other ingredients
« Reply #98 on: November 28, 2016, 04:32:33 PM »
I note that every stutter that I have is accompanied by a spike be that small or large in the Net status window, the top graph. Its always worse near water, and manic near the fleets for some reason, even whilst FPS says between 46 - 60.

Shoot! I smell Zack! Doom's a Fairy, Jimmy's a drunk, RT is very suspicious!
how do I start my engine...no seriously, How?

Offline Skuzzy

  • Support Member
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31462
      • HiTech Creations Home Page
Re: The gumbo of stutters, pauses, freeze and other ingredients
« Reply #99 on: November 28, 2016, 04:36:08 PM »
I have tried everything Pudgie is doing now. In shorts tests the "pause-and-play" petit freezes cleared up (in my case) but after extended play would always return.

My conclusion is that instead of trying to correct our systems to fix the problem, we need to record and film, and then post reports.
<snip>

Yes, please!
Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
support@hitechcreations.com

Offline Skuzzy

  • Support Member
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31462
      • HiTech Creations Home Page
Re: The gumbo of stutters, pauses, freeze and other ingredients
« Reply #100 on: November 28, 2016, 04:37:52 PM »
I note that every stutter that I have is accompanied by a spike be that small or large in the Net status window, the top graph. Its always worse near water, and manic near the fleets for some reason, even whilst FPS says between 46 - 60.

A "Variance" spike would be normal and not indicative of the situation but a result of the situation.
Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
support@hitechcreations.com

Offline VoX

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 344
Re: The gumbo of stutters, pauses, freeze and other ingredients
« Reply #101 on: November 28, 2016, 05:02:45 PM »
Just tried offline and no stutters near fleets but still some minor freezes as I assume skins and planes load? It's an odd one and I don't envy your search skuzzy.  :cheers:
Shoot! I smell Zack! Doom's a Fairy, Jimmy's a drunk, RT is very suspicious!
how do I start my engine...no seriously, How?

Offline JimmyD3

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3970
Re: The gumbo of stutters, pauses, freeze and other ingredients
« Reply #102 on: November 28, 2016, 08:01:14 PM »
Skuzzy, is there a recording program we can run in the background to track all that is going on with our machines. We used to use a device called a glitch catcher when I worked Instrumentation on the Trans-Alaska Pipeline trying to track down spurious signals and other unknowns. Could the Task Manager logs be set up to record everything? Just some thoughts. :joystick:
Kenai77
CO Sic Puppies MWK
USAF 1971-76

Offline Pudgie

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1280
Re: The gumbo of stutters, pauses, freeze and other ingredients
« Reply #103 on: November 28, 2016, 08:01:51 PM »
Here are 2 AH films of me flying just now running AHIII under Dx11, 1 film using all 6 CPU cores, 1 film using 2 CPU cores.

Enjoy!

 :salute
Win 10 Home 64, AMD Ryzen 9 3900X, MSI MPG X570 Gaming Plus, GSkill FlareX 32Gb DDR4 3200 4x8Gb, XFX Radeon RX 6900X 16Gb, Samsung 950 Pro 512Gb NVMe PCI-E SSD (boot), Samsung 850 Pro 128Gb SATA SSD (pagefile), Creative SoundBlaster X7 DAC-AMP, Intel LAN, SeaSonic PRIME Gold 850W, all CLWC'd

Offline DaddyAce

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1248
Re: The gumbo of stutters, pauses, freeze and other ingredients
« Reply #104 on: November 28, 2016, 09:33:51 PM »
Turn OFF SuperFetch.......

Tried it but didn't seem to help.

 :salute