Author Topic: Ok we need your help here.  (Read 4910 times)

Offline Devil 505

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Re: Ok we need your help here.
« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2016, 03:20:38 PM »
Well said Joker.
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Offline Dawger

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Re: Ok we need your help here.
« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2016, 03:53:47 PM »
If folks aren't showing up, you have to examine the root causes.

FSO requires some extra effort so it has to promise some extra reward.

Requiring both sides to attack AND defend is an issue.

Requiring multiple targets is an issue.

For squads that would like to practice in the FSO ride, changing airplanes every week and not issuing orders until late Wednesday is an issue.

I would suggest single targets for each side, one side defending and one side attacking and assigned rides for each squadron for the duration of each 3 frame series. Not having 5 different plane types on each side would make this much easier.

People like big fights with basically even odds. We don't really need all the hide and seek silliness. Just turn radar on only in the tower and let each side direct their forces accordingly.




Offline branch37

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Re: Ok we need your help here.
« Reply #32 on: December 10, 2016, 04:15:12 PM »
It gets rough on the attackers when the whole enemy side is in fighters camped over the target waiting on them to show up with 10-20 less fighters than the defending side and when the defenders know exactly when and where to defend.


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Offline j500ss

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Re: Ok we need your help here.
« Reply #33 on: December 10, 2016, 04:20:35 PM »
THIS >>>>>> when the defenders know exactly when and where to defend.


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There lies a big issue ( there are several more), and probably one that is the easiest to fix......   Think about that folks.

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« Last Edit: December 10, 2016, 04:36:19 PM by j500ss »

Offline puller

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Re: Ok we need your help here.
« Reply #34 on: December 10, 2016, 04:40:38 PM »
The attack on 11 with vf17 we hit target before t+45...all but one of my SBDs made it home untouched...

But our fighters pretty well tied up the zeros from the onset of their attack on us...

They knew where we were and were unable to stop us from hitting 11...

Last month the bomber escort was unable to stop us from hitting their bombers...

You can know exactly what is fixing to happen and still be unable to oppose it...or be out of place when the attack or whatever occurs... :aok

And I agree that if that attack was deliberately called off last night the offending COs of those squads should be punished in some form...maybe no points for landed aircraft...not banned or anything like that...we already don't have enough squads in FSO...
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Offline Devil 505

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Re: Ok we need your help here.
« Reply #35 on: December 10, 2016, 05:06:04 PM »
If folks aren't showing up, you have to examine the root causes.

FSO requires some extra effort so it has to promise some extra reward.

Requiring both sides to attack AND defend is an issue.

Requiring multiple targets is an issue.


For squads that would like to practice in the FSO ride, changing airplanes every week and not issuing orders until late Wednesday is an issue.

I would suggest single targets for each side, one side defending and one side attacking and assigned rides for each squadron for the duration of each 3 frame series. Not having 5 different plane types on each side would make this much easier.

People like big fights with basically even odds. We don't really need all the hide and seek silliness. Just turn radar on only in the tower and let each side direct their forces accordingly.

I have to disagree with you on those 2 points.

most of the FSO designs featured both sides attacking and defending - more often than not it works well.  It forces the CiC to choose to either stack the offense or defense. These are the critical decisions that bring variety to FSO. Furthermore,  in single-side attack events the defending side suffers landslide defeats - just like last month.

single attack objectives for each side removes another element of variety as well because the decisions regarding division of available forces is made even less important. It becomes stale when you know where everything is going.

another factor to consider in why multiple objectives is better is the result on the squads stuck in the lesser aircraft. With more objectives, you had a reduced chance of having to contend with the enemy's best aircraft and being slaughtered.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2016, 05:12:41 PM by Devil 505 »
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Offline j500ss

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Re: Ok we need your help here.
« Reply #36 on: December 10, 2016, 05:26:13 PM »
Devil,

I am pretty sure I looked at the scores last month, and I think it was a Axis victory...... Like not even close in frame 1 and 2. 

I agree with your last point.

Someone mentioned earlier that FSO is scripted.   Not my words, but also hard to argue.  Some of the scripting, and predictability just needs to go away.......  Like POOF!!! Gone

 :salute

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Offline branch37

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Re: Ok we need your help here.
« Reply #37 on: December 10, 2016, 05:43:33 PM »
I have some ideas on the scripting issue. I'll post them later when I'm not drinking.


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Offline Nefarious

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Re: Ok we need your help here.
« Reply #38 on: December 10, 2016, 05:44:51 PM »
Someone mentioned earlier that FSO is scripted.   Not my words, but also hard to argue.  Some of the scripting, and predictability just needs to go away.......  Like POOF!!! Gone

Like? I am happy to take advice and gameplay ideas from the community, but if it doesn't promote combat, action, or fighting chances are it won't be implemented.
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline Kanth

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Re: Ok we need your help here.
« Reply #39 on: December 10, 2016, 05:52:23 PM »

+1


And I agree that if that attack was deliberately called off last night the offending COs of those squads should be punished in some form...maybe no points for landed aircraft...not banned or anything like that...we already don't have enough squads in FSO...
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Offline Nefarious

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Re: Ok we need your help here.
« Reply #40 on: December 10, 2016, 05:54:13 PM »
Set Objectives known to both sides and the T+60 rule ensure that action is had by both participating sides and within 1 hour of the start.

That is the bulk of the scripting and predictability that is part of FSO. If you removed those two items, sure it would be less predictable and scripty, but it would also increase the chances of non-action and no fighting. That is the heart of Scenario Game play.

FSO rules and regulations are for making sure there is a fight, when no fight occurs something must be looked as to why it didn't happen.

There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline j500ss

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Re: Ok we need your help here.
« Reply #41 on: December 10, 2016, 05:58:04 PM »
Like? I am happy to take advice and gameplay ideas from the community, but if it doesn't promote combat, action, or fighting chances are it won't be implemented.

I'll PM you in the next week Nef.  Take a gander and see what you think   :salute

Offline Devil 505

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Re: Ok we need your help here.
« Reply #42 on: December 10, 2016, 06:22:55 PM »

I am pretty sure I looked at the scores last month, and I think it was a Axis victory...... Like not even close in frame 1 and 2. 


Problem is that you're judging by score. No more than 35 Axis pilots survived in any given frame last month. The fewest landed by the allies was 66.

Read here: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,383331.0.html
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Offline Dawger

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Re: Ok we need your help here.
« Reply #43 on: December 10, 2016, 07:44:53 PM »
I have to disagree with you on those 2 points.

most of the FSO designs featured both sides attacking and defending - more often than not it works well.  It forces the CiC to choose to either stack the offense or defense. These are the critical decisions that bring variety to FSO. Furthermore,  in single-side attack events the defending side suffers landslide defeats - just like last month.

single attack objectives for each side removes another element of variety as well because the decisions regarding division of available forces is made even less important. It becomes stale when you know where everything is going.

another factor to consider in why multiple objectives is better is the result on the squads stuck in the lesser aircraft. With more objectives, you had a reduced chance of having to contend with the enemy's best aircraft and being slaughtered.

The issue is in the requiring.

Requiring both sides to split their forces into quarters (two on defense, two on offense) is the issue.

Publish two targets for each side but make no requirements as to either being REQUIRED to be defended or attacked and turn the radar on with 100 mile range for each side.

Let the CIC's determine what they will attack and/or defend and give both sides the means to identify the threats and react to them during the frame.

As it is now, after launch there is no real need to coordinate anything because everyone is wandering around blind and everyone know the defense will be right over the target so I fly to target with the AP on and read a book.

On defense I calculate the earliest the enemy can get to the target and relax in my orbit directly over the target until that time hack.

It isn't very interesting.

Offline Devil 505

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Re: Ok we need your help here.
« Reply #44 on: December 10, 2016, 08:20:35 PM »
Dawger, that would make attacking too easy. To cover that area, the defenders would be stretched too thin and picked off piecemeal when the attack group plows through them. The defenders need a reasonable chance to intercept the bomber stream before they drop. With a wide area to cover the bulk of the defense will almost always be out of position.
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