Author Topic: New HOTAS announced  (Read 4742 times)

Offline Ack-Ack

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 25260
      • FlameWarriors
Re: New HOTAS announced
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2017, 07:09:52 PM »
How do the brakes work on the VKB T-Rudder pedals? Do you have individual braking?

It doesn't have analog toe brakes like the CH pedals do, you have to use the VKB software to program the toe brakes.  The software is utter crap, not easy to use at all so I haven't programmed my pedals yet.  Supposed to be a rewrite of the software coming soon, waiting for that.
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song

Offline Pluto

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 341
Re: New HOTAS announced
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2017, 02:52:44 AM »
The vkb pedals are well worth giving up toe brakes for IMO

Offline rvflyer

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 737
Re: New HOTAS announced
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2017, 03:00:29 AM »
As a real life pilot I have to have toe brakes on my rudder pedals. :)

The vkb pedals are well worth giving up toe brakes for IMO
Tour 70 2005 to present

Online edge12674

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 411
Re: New HOTAS announced
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2017, 07:57:21 AM »
Try the MFG pedals.  They have toe brakes that are adjustable.  Best pedals I ever tried.

TShark
"If you are alone and meet a lone Zero, run like hell...You're outnumbered" - Joe Foss USMC 26 kills

Offline rvflyer

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 737
Re: New HOTAS announced
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2017, 02:50:25 PM »
Little more details on how you like them and how hard to set up with their software to play in AH? right now the exchange rate to the US is not to bad. I am interested in trying them.


Try the MFG pedals.  They have toe brakes that are adjustable.  Best pedals I ever tried.
Tour 70 2005 to present

Offline rvflyer

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 737
Re: New HOTAS announced
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2017, 02:58:24 PM »
Curious why you don't like the Warthog? Been using mine for about a year and works well.


I'm on the look out for a decent joystick. I have fallen out of favour with CH products, and i'm not happy with the Thrustmaster Warthog i purchased as a replacement.
Tour 70 2005 to present

Offline Bino

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5937
Re: New HOTAS announced
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2017, 06:54:59 AM »
Try the MFG pedals.  They have toe brakes that are adjustable.  Best pedals I ever tried.

^ This!   :aok

http://mfg.simundza.com/products


"The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'." - Randy Pausch

PC Specs

Offline Ratsy

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 564
Re: New HOTAS announced
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2017, 08:45:11 AM »
Double This!  :aok

Best aspect of my rig, to date...
George "Ratsy" Preddy
328th FS - 352nd FG
Died December 25th, 1944, Near Liege - Ardennes

Operating with the Arabian Knights - callsign AKRaider

Online edge12674

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 411
Re: New HOTAS announced
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2017, 09:49:06 AM »
Little more details on how you like them and how hard to set up with their software to play in AH? right now the exchange rate to the US is not to bad. I am interested in trying them.

Prior to getting my MFG Crosswind pedals, I was using Thrustmaster RCS pedals that had been upgraded with a Hall sensor and improved friction plates.  After reading A LOT of reviews on the Crosswinds I decided to try it.  The customer service was very good and the transaction went smooth.  Putting the pedals together was very simple and explained in Youtube videos.  I did use the MFG software to calibrate the toe brakes and then refined the calibration in the Aces High program.  Total time for assembly and calibration was under an hour.  The Crosswinds have several interchangeable cams that give a different centering feel, but I found the default cam to have the best feel.  The Crosswinds allow you to customize pedal toe-in angle, pedal tilt, toe brake stiffness, and overall pedal resistance.  These adjustments really do allow for a customized pedal feel.  I was surprised by the smoothness of the Crosswind.  It made using the RCS feel like I was dragging my feet in a pan of sand (I routinely maintained the RCS to ensure the smoothest travel).  The pedal materials and design are very durable and I believe will last me a lifetime.

I have been a Thrustmaster customer since 1992 when I purchased an FCS/WCS combo.  I have stayed with Thrustmaster through its different models all the way up to the Cougar.  My frustration came from poor the design/materials used in the current offerings from Thrustmaster, Saitek, and CH Products.  When you read the forums, every one of the "top of the line" controllers seems to have problems in product and customer service.  I believe I have found the quality in design/materials I was looking for in the offerings from Baur and MFG.  Seems that these small Russian companies have heard the call and are producing controllers for the true enthusiast.

Hope this helps   

TShark
"If you are alone and meet a lone Zero, run like hell...You're outnumbered" - Joe Foss USMC 26 kills

Offline rvflyer

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 737
Re: New HOTAS announced
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2017, 10:37:26 AM »
Thanks for the review, with your and the reviews I find on You Tube I think I will make the order. I have been using a set of CH Pros almost from the time I started this game 12 years ago and they are about wore out. :)



Prior to getting my MFG Crosswind pedals, I was using Thrustmaster RCS pedals that had been upgraded with a Hall sensor and improved friction plates.  After reading A LOT of reviews on the Crosswinds I decided to try it.  The customer service was very good and the transaction went smooth.  Putting the pedals together was very simple and explained in Youtube videos.  I did use the MFG software to calibrate the toe brakes and then refined the calibration in the Aces High program.  Total time for assembly and calibration was under an hour.  The Crosswinds have several interchangeable cams that give a different centering feel, but I found the default cam to have the best feel.  The Crosswinds allow you to customize pedal toe-in angle, pedal tilt, toe brake stiffness, and overall pedal resistance.  These adjustments really do allow for a customized pedal feel.  I was surprised by the smoothness of the Crosswind.  It made using the RCS feel like I was dragging my feet in a pan of sand (I routinely maintained the RCS to ensure the smoothest travel).  The pedal materials and design are very durable and I believe will last me a lifetime.

I have been a Thrustmaster customer since 1992 when I purchased an FCS/WCS combo.  I have stayed with Thrustmaster through its different models all the way up to the Cougar.  My frustration came from poor the design/materials used in the current offerings from Thrustmaster, Saitek, and CH Products.  When you read the forums, every one of the "top of the line" controllers seems to have problems in product and customer service.  I believe I have found the quality in design/materials I was looking for in the offerings from Baur and MFG.  Seems that these small Russian companies have heard the call and are producing controllers for the true enthusiast.

Hope this helps
Tour 70 2005 to present

Offline SIK1

  • AH Training Corps
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3689
Re: New HOTAS announced
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2017, 12:56:46 PM »
Curious why you don't like the Warthog? Been using mine for about a year and works well.

I'll tell you why I don't like mine.

The Warthog looks nice, but internally it's not built very well. My Warthog first died a couple of months after I had received it. All the buttons quit working although the x, and y axis still worked. Had to send it in to have it repaired, fortunately it was still under warranty. It was warrantied in Canada so it had to cross an international boarder there and back. So I was without my shinny new stick for about two months.  So back to using my trusty old CH Fighterstick that I had been using for almost ten years at that time.

After about six months of getting my Warthog back I noticed that movement along both axis was getting rough. So I did a internet search and learned about the "stiction" issue. First time I took it apart I was really concerned about all the plastic particles I found in the grease so I cleaned it spotless and lubed it with some high quality silicone grease.  So now about every six months I get to take my stick apart clean it and re-grease it. And I still find plastic particles in the grease when I clean it.

Then about a year ago I had some wires pull lose from the DIN plug on the base. This time it was long out of warranty so I had to do the repair myself. Then during FSO last Friday the stick broke off of the base. Actually the hub that the locking collar rides on broke. The part is made out of pot metal so it can't be repaired. Fortunately I have the ability to machine a new piece out of aluminum, I just need to find the time to do it.

I'm also not the only one to have these issues. I found information on the internet about everyone one of the issues I've experienced. And issues like the stiction can be found in great detail.

So like I said at the beginning the Warthog looks nice but internally it is not all that great. Right now I'm looking at getting the VKB Gunfighter and an adapter to use my Warthog handle (once I make a new hub of course). Until then I'll just use my trusty CH Fighterstick. The one that cost half as much as a Warthog and that I never have had a problem with. Granted it was bought from CH when they were still a privately owned company, and they do not seem to be as reliable now that they are owned by a large corporation, but my CH stick is more reliable than my Warthog.

As for pedals, I have a set of Simpeds I purchased right before he quit building them. They perform flawlessly and I'm glad I got them when I did. If money were no object I think I would have to go with a set of Slaw RX Vipers. Though I do like the look of both the MFG Crosswind, and the VKB T-Rudder, and they are priced more competitively then the Slaw pedals.

 :salute
Sik
444th Air Mafia since Air Warrior
Proudly flying with VF-17

"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG54

Offline rvflyer

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 737
Re: New HOTAS announced
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2017, 02:03:52 PM »
Thanks SIK1 for that review, like I say I have had mine about a year and no problems, I did know about the plastic particles and I took mine apart before even using it and cleaned everything and re lubed with the grease the guys on the forums were recommending, don't remember the name now. I checked it again at about 6 months and again a couple weeks ago and still no particles or wear anywhere. there are more functions on the throttle than I will ever use in AH but I do wish I could program the increase decrease slider on the throttle to rise up or lower the pilot in the cockpit but does not seem to work. My previous stick was a Thrustmaster Cougar HOTAS with the gimbal mod made by Ian in Australia that converted it all to Hall sensors which worked so smooth and never any spikes of any kind as there were with the original Cougar potentiometers.  There were some problem with the centering springs he used and he had them special made in australia and it was getting to be a pain in the behind every time I needed to order spring so it is now my back up HOTAS

I'll tell you why I don't like mine.

The Warthog looks nice, but internally it's not built very well. My Warthog first died a couple of months after I had received it. All the buttons quit working although the x, and y axis still worked. Had to send it in to have it repaired, fortunately it was still under warranty. It was warrantied in Canada so it had to cross an international boarder there and back. So I was without my shinny new stick for about two months.  So back to using my trusty old CH Fighterstick that I had been using for almost ten years at that time.

After about six months of getting my Warthog back I noticed that movement along both axis was getting rough. So I did a internet search and learned about the "stiction" issue. First time I took it apart I was really concerned about all the plastic particles I found in the grease so I cleaned it spotless and lubed it with some high quality silicone grease.  So now about every six months I get to take my stick apart clean it and re-grease it. And I still find plastic particles in the grease when I clean it.

Then about a year ago I had some wires pull lose from the DIN plug on the base. This time it was long out of warranty so I had to do the repair myself. Then during FSO last Friday the stick broke off of the base. Actually the hub that the locking collar rides on broke. The part is made out of pot metal so it can't be repaired. Fortunately I have the ability to machine a new piece out of aluminum, I just need to find the time to do it.

I'm also not the only one to have these issues. I found information on the internet about everyone one of the issues I've experienced. And issues like the stiction can be found in great detail.

So like I said at the beginning the Warthog looks nice but internally it is not all that great. Right now I'm looking at getting the VKB Gunfighter and an adapter to use my Warthog handle (once I make a new hub of course). Until then I'll just use my trusty CH Fighterstick. The one that cost half as much as a Warthog and that I never have had a problem with. Granted it was bought from CH when they were still a privately owned company, and they do not seem to be as reliable now that they are owned by a large corporation, but my CH stick is more reliable than my Warthog.

As for pedals, I have a set of Simpeds I purchased right before he quit building them. They perform flawlessly and I'm glad I got them when I did. If money were no object I think I would have to go with a set of Slaw RX Vipers. Though I do like the look of both the MFG Crosswind, and the VKB T-Rudder, and they are priced more competitively then the Slaw pedals.

 :salute
Sik
Tour 70 2005 to present

Offline streakeagle

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1017
      • Streak Eagle - Stephen's Website
Re: New HOTAS announced
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2017, 08:10:39 PM »
I have had my Warthog for many years and only had one problem that required a repair: trigger button first stage stopped registering, so I had to replace the green multiplexer board in the stick grip that sends the button inputs in a serial chain down to the base. $40 to fix a stick/throttle that cost me $350 was better than any other alternative I had.

I don't like the feel of the Warthog, but you can't beat the precision. Fortunately my Warthog has yet to fail in any major way compared to some of the nightmares posted on the internet. But I also had good luck with all of my Saitek sticks: X-36 USB, X-45, and X-52 Pro. None of them ever failed other than minor problems with a switch or two that I could easily fix... Though the X-52 Pro twist rudder pot got noisy after years of no use and I am too lazy to open it up and see if I can clean or replace it.

I got a nice aluminum stick extension so that the Warthog stick's pitch-axis linear displacement at the top of the stick would match the distance of travel of my real F-4 Phantom stick and then mounted it so that the top of the stick is at the same height of the F-4 Phantom stick. This extension not only gave me a range of motion that matched my preferred real-life stick, but allowed me to truly leverage the 14-bit precision of the Warthog and almost eliminates the clunky/friction feel of the stick around the center.

However, there is still one drawback: a weak/constant centering force. The weak centering force is great for helo sims, but when I adapted my F-4 stick into a PC compatible USB stick using a BU0836X card, I had used some springs to give it self-centering: soft near the center, but hard when you pulled all the way back, with a linear change along the way. You could literally feel how far/hard you were pulling back on the stick. The Warthog stick keeps pretty much the same force no matter how far away I am from the center. I can't tell how far away the center is until I get there. When I get there, I know it all too well, because I can still feel the clunky transition in the spring mechanism as I cross the center. The extension reduced that effect, but it is still clearly there.

My home-made F-4/B-8 grip stick was truly smooth no matter which direction I moved, but I had the spring force high enough at full back extension that air combat maneuvering would eventually cause fatigue -- extremely realistic, though annoying. But the industrial linear pot I used to exactly match the motion range of the F-4 stick pitch axis would get dirty/noisy and I got tired of having to clean it every other day with a q-tip and alcohol. I also needed the more complex buttons/switches of the Warthog stick to many of the aircraft in DCS World. So I made the Warthog fit where my F-4 stick used to be in my home-made F-4 seat/console.

This new stick announced in this post looks great. The idea that it can be attached to a Warthog base is very attractive to me, since I am mostly happy with my Warthog install. If I could attach my Warthog grip to this stick's base, I might be interested in getting the new base, too. The analog brake lever on the stick grip is the appealing part. In DCS World, many of the flyable aircraft have their brakes applied by a lever on the stick. However, the Warthog grip still has a better button layout for many of the US jets I fly. So the ability to easily change between the Warthog grip and the new stick would be great for me. I also have an extra B-8 grip I would like to adapt to the Warthog style connector/multiplexer so that I could still have the true grip and feel of just about every USAF fighter from the P-80 to the F-15A (and many other aircraft and helicopters). But as long as my Warthog continues to work flawlessly, there is no pressure for me to get new hardware. So I can wait to see how others react to the new stick.

Baur's products have always fascinated me and his KG-13 grip that will fit on my Warthog stick is a very attractive product, not to mention his stick base and high quality pedals. But you basically have to deal with him using email / translators. There is no formal website providing clear information on what he currently is making/selling. I would be much more likely to buy his products if he had a formal website/web store for his products.

My rudder pedals are still the original Saitek Pro Rudder Pedals that I got when I bought the X-52 Pro. They still work as well as the day I got them. While some people recommend mods to eliminate the center detent and have a smoother more precise feel, I would rather not fix something that isn't broken. Since Saitek has had business problems and hasn't manufactured any new rudder pedals, my options for replacing them are limited. I don't like narrow width pedals like the CH Products or even the new Thrustmaster pedals, especially the way my stick is center mounted on a big box cover replicating the F-4 installation. So the Baur BRD and MFG Crosswind products are the most appealing to me. But again, Baur's presentation is less than optimal, so I am more likely to go with the Crosswind pedals. VKB Pedals with no toe brakes is a deal breaker for me. The random nature of their production schedule is a real turn off on their otherwise very attractive stick products, too.

It is sad the CH Products never released anything newer/better and have slowly gone downhill on the quality and support of their historically great sticks. But I never bought one because I just didn't like their sticks or throttles. The Saitek sticks were the best price/performance ratio for me for years. I only bought the Warthog when I saw it selling for $350 online one year. I am glad I bought it now, because Saitek went downhill, too.

But it is nice to how so many high end options these days, even if you have to ship most of them from Russia, or build them yourself.


i5(4690K) MAXIMUS VII HERO(32 Gb RAM) GTX1080(8 Gb RAM) Win10 Home (64-bit)
OUR MISSION: PROTECT THE FORCE, GET THE PICTURES, ...AND KILL MIGS!

Online edge12674

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 411
Re: New HOTAS announced
« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2017, 09:24:13 AM »
I agree that the language barrier with Baur gave me pause as well.  However, I found the translation add-on for my e-mail program (Thunderbird) to be pretty easy.  The quick responses from Baur himself to my questions and the continued contact he provided really convinced me to try his BRD-N.  It is also one of the few gimbals that is stiff enough to provide support for the heavy Cougar/Warthog handle.  MFG Crosswinds are really a no-brainer for rudder pedal replacement.  I think you will like the foot placement.

Here is a link to Baur's forum:

http://avia-sim.ru/forum/index.php?sid=ac473c637fbdaad1dca9c328bba70da6

Again you will have to use a translation add-on, but there is A LOT of info on his products.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 09:27:17 AM by edge12674 »

TShark
"If you are alone and meet a lone Zero, run like hell...You're outnumbered" - Joe Foss USMC 26 kills

Offline thrila

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3190
      • The Few Squadron
Re: New HOTAS announced
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2017, 12:18:15 PM »
Curious why you don't like the Warthog? Been using mine for about a year and works well.

Sorry about the late reply, i don't look at this section very often.

1. I find the amount of force required to move the stick too high. I have just purchased some springs to replace four of the small ones in the stick to see if that will reduce the force required.

2. I cannot make fine movements with the stick- it is not precise. For example if i move the the stick halfway it moves smoothly to that poin. But if i wan't to move it a couple of millimetres i simply can't. It seems to be stuck in that position and requires so much force to move the stick, it moves further than desired. I do not have any fine control with the stick and my nose ends up porpoising.

I would not recommend this stick.

"Willy's gone and made another,
Something like it's elder brother-
Wing tips rounded, spinner's bigger.
Unbraced tailplane ends it's figure.
One-O-nine F is it's name-
F is for futile, not for fame."