New Map Characteristics: What would you Specify?

[bustr]

I'm letting DX9 run for a few hours with some cloud fronts to see if when I exit, the game throws and error with a DMP file I can give to Hitech.

Here is some fun in the Pit because I'm bored waiting on the clouds to run.


Panther in some trees looking at the enemy GV base 6000yds off. The village just below the GV base is that country's spawn point from the nearest medium airfield.  Since that GV base is one of the three uncaptureable bases, capturing the only outside base with a GV spawn to the island will be worth some fun in the Pit. That small GV base has three spawns, one down in the pit in a village center. And one to each side up on the gallery into a village. Just so happens those gallery spawns are one village over from the enemy spawn so you can clobber each other in between the village buildings. Same down in the Pit.










Yakking around in the Pit. And this tiny GV base in a cul-de-sac is how the other two tiny GV bases are setup. I placed a landing pad next to the tower where the storch spawns in the center of it. That way the storch will have some place to tower out with a successful landing. And the grass area in front of the tower is 1 mile long. In the first picture just above the gunsight glass is the 250ft small tree covered hill in the center of the Pit. If you can get hidden in those trees, you can surprise some snipers hiding in the 500ft gallery surrounding the Pit.

[The Fugitive]

WTG Bustr keep at it! 

[ccvi]

If you were writing the specification for a new AH3 map, what single characteristic would guide you in the map design.

Wanted: Anything that separates the place to fight at and the spawn. Both attacker and defener should have to / have a chance to move some part. Also, some (not complete) separation of air and ground fights. GVs fighting over a town with aircraft needing 2 minutes to up and drop bombs is no fun for the drivers. Aircraft fighting over a town, only to see the capture or resupply happen by a stealty m3 is no fun for the pilots.
Don't care: How it looks. It could be textureless gray terrain without any clouds.

Calderas picture looks like a good start, but this layout only works for 2 fields. Moving the towns perpendicular to the side of a row of fields would at least allow an infite long row (or a loop) of fields. GV spawns for such setup: Zero. Allow for some air-only fights. Defenders might be further away than usual, but in the end the final thing to defend against is goons.

GV-spawns placed where ground fights can happen. But not on opposite sides of a town, where a fight happens after significant damange has been done. Instead, some terrain features is needed: The town being placed in a valley or on a mountain with access from only one side. The spawns are placed on the same side of town, but opposite sides of the area allowing easy access. The side that achieves superiority in that area can move in to capture/hold. Discourage too much air support by vertical and/or horizontal separation from the air field.

Where not enough towns are available (each field can only have one), vbases could work as proxies. Located in the middle of air bases, creating an area to fight over. Now to add some strategic value, a spawn from such vbase right into the center of a town would basically guarantee that the side that maintains control over the vbase also owns the airfield.

Coasts and carriers. Instead of airfields right at the shore allowing to launch close enough to shoot before the gear is up and doors closed, vbases right at the shore. Not too far back, few miles maximum, backed up by an airfield. As a combination of the above, the field offers a place to fight at (without being the spawn), and to avoid that attackers from the sea are drivin back into the ocean, the vbase might come with a spawn right into the airfields town. You manage to get a foothold, you get both fields.

Possibly, a similar feature as for low accessibility towns could be created for carriers to create some ship-ship fights. A fjord with a field of some value placed in the back, would force ships to battle it out at sea. The winner can move in to attack the hard to defend but valuable field.

Strat targets with ground access could use the layout with GV spawns as described above. Resupplying wouldn't be from the opposite side (75mm shells from one side, care packages from the other), but require to fight for access to get supplies through.

[bustr]

Why don't you build a terrain? Same question for all of you forum armchair experts on all of this.

It's 200 hours and 100 weather front files to understand clouds in AH3 too late for me to change mine to make you happy ccvi. And all the eye candy is for the 99% not like yourself who will see it for the first time as a 2 week account, or someone's youtube film, or a screen shot. It's nice to hang onto new people. As for spawns and such, build a test terrain and use a stop watch to test trip time from the spawns. It will surprise you how many of your assumption are off just like it did me. If you build a terrain you only have yourself to blame if you don't get your perfect utopia.

Contact Easyscore for expert help on getting started. Also contact the AvA terrain building team. In the end you only have yourself to blame if you don't get a terrain that works your way. All terrains are built by players on their own dime as a labor of love and not a dime from HTC to compensate them.

I don't get half the players in this forum. Complain about everything and everyone else while having the tools at hand and won't show everyone how they say AH terrains should really be done. In 14 years I've played on every MA terrain, and terrains are terrains are terrains. Just a new pile of rocks in an open world sand box somebody went to the time and effort to create for the complainers to tell them it sucks. Maybe this is why HTC never got into pumping out terrains like they produce new rides.

[bustr]

By the way, my 5 hour DX9 test of 28 large cloud fronts, changing in game graphics settings, flying in and out of them. And several hours of minimized to the desktop then multiple tabbing out and coming back in every 15 minutes or so for a few hours. DX9 closed clean with no errors. All fronts were set at 70mph.

[molybdenum]

Now with Hitech's requirements for clouds, I'm using fronts so 80% of the time coverering over strats and other targets at 7-18k is protecting them from bombing above the cloud base. With a 20-30% random factor for bombing success over 24 hours. That means if you loiter around waiting to time the cloud front, you give defenders that much more time to get to your alt. Or you can expose your self by coming in under the cloud base.

Then the enemy strats had better be close to friendly airbases if there is going to be only a 20% chance that you'll be able to see the target 1st pass at a survivable alt. No one is going to want to spend a significant %age of their available playing time on a mostly boring strat run without the likelihood of being able to see and hit their target before getting intercepted.

[The Fugitive]

Why don't you build a terrain? Same question for all of you forum armchair experts on all of this.

It's 200 hours and 100 weather front files to understand clouds in AH3 too late for me to change mine to make you happy ccvi. And all the eye candy is for the 99% not like yourself who will see it for the first time as a 2 week account, or someone's youtube film, or a screen shot. It's nice to hang onto new people. As for spawns and such, build a test terrain and use a stop watch to test trip time from the spawns. It will surprise you how many of your assumption are off just like it did me. If you build a terrain you only have yourself to blame if you don't get your perfect utopia.

Contact Easyscore for expert help on getting started. Also contact the AvA terrain building team. In the end you only have yourself to blame if you don't get a terrain that works your way. All terrains are built by players on their own dime as a labor of love and not a dime from HTC to compensate them.

I don't get half the players in this forum. Complain about everything and everyone else while having the tools at hand and won't show everyone how they say AH terrains should really be done. In 14 years I've played on every MA terrain, and terrains are terrains are terrains. Just a new pile of rocks in an open world sand box somebody went to the time and effort to create for the complainers to tell them it sucks. Maybe this is why HTC never got into pumping out terrains like they produce new rides.

I dont know about anyone else, but I have downloaded all the tutorials for map making, I have learned a few tricks in Photoshop, I have looked over the program Artiks has made, I have messed with the terrain program a few times, I have read ever post in the "Terrain Editor" threads but I really don't see myself building a terrain anytime in the near future.


Why? Because I work 40-50 hours a week, I sleep 40-50 hours a week, I do 10-20 hours of "chores" around the house (more in the summer, 3 hours a week to just mow the lawn!) to help out my wife who works 50-60 hours a week, the rest of my time is helping with my Dad who has the beginnings of dementia, some cozy time with my wife of 35 years and AH. Not to mention anything my two grown sons may need from me.

I would love to devote the hours upon hours it takes to skin and /or build maps but I just dont have the time. If im lucky in another 5-10 year, IF I can retire, and IF AH is still around I may get my chance.

Don't be so hard on these guys if you don't know there situations. I am very happy that some DO have the time to do these things and  I am grateful for their work..... even if I don't like what they have come up with. Don't shout so loudly from that "high and mighty" horse.

[Randy1]

A natural obstacle, like a major river crossing, to be surmounted, before victory can be achieved, and the map reset. Something like a Remagen set up, or an Oder crossing type scenario.

Maybe building some pontoon bridges under fire. One group to suppress the defenders, interdict reinforcement, while the others construct the bridge(s).

Interesting, maybe make the final map win criteria a taking of the city with a larger number of troops.

[DmonSlyr]

Why don't you build a terrain? Same question for all of you forum armchair experts on all of this.

It's 200 hours and 100 weather front files to understand clouds in AH3 too late for me to change mine to make you happy ccvi. And all the eye candy is for the 99% not like yourself who will see it for the first time as a 2 week account, or someone's youtube film, or a screen shot. It's nice to hang onto new people. As for spawns and such, build a test terrain and use a stop watch to test trip time from the spawns. It will surprise you how many of your assumption are off just like it did me. If you build a terrain you only have yourself to blame if you don't get your perfect utopia.

Contact Easyscore for expert help on getting started. Also contact the AvA terrain building team. In the end you only have yourself to blame if you don't get a terrain that works your way. All terrains are built by players on their own dime as a labor of love and not a dime from HTC to compensate them.

I don't get half the players in this forum. Complain about everything and everyone else while having the tools at hand and won't show everyone how they say AH terrains should really be done. In 14 years I've played on every MA terrain, and terrains are terrains are terrains. Just a new pile of rocks in an open world sand box somebody went to the time and effort to create for the complainers to tell them it sucks. Maybe this is why HTC never got into pumping out terrains like they produce new rides.

Imo, there really needs to be a map making team. One person making a map takes too long, it's designed for their needs, not everyone has the time, ect ect. If I had nothing to do than I would gladly make maps, but it's not my time. There needs to be a dedicated map making team to construct playable, actionable maps, with fronts that aren't too far apart, and bases that allow for back base defense.

[hitech]

Btw bustr, you can also set the first spawn time to a negative value so that when you start the formations will have already been formed.

HiTech

[hitech]

Also you need to do some smoothing on those ridges.  It would also help if you change terrain types to rock on the steep slopes.

HiTech

[bustr]

1.) - Btw bustr, you can also set the first spawn time to a negative value so that when you start the formations will have already been formed.


2.) - Also you need to do some smoothing on those ridges. 

3.) - It would also help if you change terrain types to rock on the steep slopes.


HiTech

1. - Got lazy testing and set the first wave at "0" just to get all of the data input into the properties to test the fronts. One more thing for the pre-submission to do list. Like one last time up a plane at every base to check the surrounding clutter and make sure there are no surprises I missed by being brain dead from looking at clutter all of these months.

2. - I thought so too and rounded the tops. Then I discovered on the vertical walls 45 degrees to the cardinal points of the pit a panther tank problem. The jagged zigzag walls at those cardinal points had 70 degree slopes when I rounded the tops and your panther will climb 70 degrees vertically for "thousands" of feet. You can guess what would happen at that point in the pit, everyone would be up on the 2000ft rim tank vulching everyone below.

By drawing the edges up in that jagged manner, I eliminated all of the 70 degree panther climb out spots. I tested every yard of that wall with a panther trying to climb out of the pit from the 500ft gallery. When I pulled those edges up into jagged tops, the wall pulled up into a steeper angle than 70 degrees stopping the panther. I spent hours micro adjusting the intersecting polygons in those jagged faces trying to round the top over and eliminate the 70 degree slope that always appeared in the cliff face below the rounded top. Obviously it's not a problem where the wall runs straight when you use the tool as a 6 mile circle and punch a 500ft deep pit. It's only at the corners describing an arc where the walls are not 90 degrees. And panthers can climb the pit wall at those areas.

3. - I thought in the TE on the bottom clutter row Euro tile set with the sand tiles, the right side end of the row tile, was greenish tan rock with a minimum of trees. I'm using it below 5000ft as exposed rock. At 8000ft-15,000ft there is a white snow streaked textured rock. Above 15k is, I cannot decide if it is a pure granite, or a sparse snow covered limestone face the next level up just before the pure snow tops. The two rock tiles on the top clutter row with the pure snow tile don't blend well with tiles from the lower elevation clutter tiles. And gleaming white granite does not dominate Europe, most of the light colored rock is limestone, while granite is gray to dark brown, even dirty tan. 

I probably then don't know which tiles you have designated as "rock" for the Euro tile set. I've tried to use the tiles based on elevation as real world as I could make it look. If you tell me which tiles are "rock", and for steep slopes, did you mean a slope with a base at any elevation 0-26k on the terrain.

I will then re-work the terrain one more time......

I wish Waffle had made a generic gray brown exposed "rock" tile for all elevations with no trees or grass on it for just this occasion in the Euro tile set. The town, tank town object, and GV base objects have some excellent exposed rock only textures. Not all exposed rock faces on our planet at steep angles have trees and grass growing out of them. I've done my share of climbing around Lake Taho, other places, and lived near the Hindu Kush.

Hitech thank you for your help. 

Hindu Kush and on clear days I could see K2 when I lived in Pakistan.

[Dundee]

If you were writing the specification for a new AH3 map, what single characteristic would guide you in the map design.

Mine would be no Starts, HQ or City making downtime's fixed.

We already have that map..........it's called the Dueling  Arena