Author Topic: Shutting off plane engine to listen for GVs  (Read 1881 times)

Offline colmbo

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Re: Shutting off plane engine to listen for GVs
« Reply #30 on: February 03, 2017, 08:08:53 PM »
A windmilling prop. making the engine turn is more noise inside the plane than you "hear past".

Hmm.  The "loudest" silence there is. :)

I honestly can't remember what I could hear on any of my dead stick landings.
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Offline Dobs

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Re: Shutting off plane engine to listen for GVs
« Reply #31 on: February 03, 2017, 08:11:05 PM »
Sound of seat cushion getting sucked up the old keister?
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Offline Mongoose

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Re: Shutting off plane engine to listen for GVs
« Reply #32 on: February 03, 2017, 10:18:32 PM »
So, when the engine is intentionally shut off,  how about the engine randomly not restarting?

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Offline Puma44

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Re: Shutting off plane engine to listen for GVs
« Reply #33 on: February 04, 2017, 01:25:00 PM »
Hmm.  The "loudest" silence there is. :)

I honestly can't remember what I could hear on any of my dead stick landings.

Sounds like you've had more than your fair share. 



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Offline colmbo

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Re: Shutting off plane engine to listen for GVs
« Reply #34 on: February 04, 2017, 06:37:40 PM »
Sounds like you've had more than your fair share.

What doesn't kill you......


The jammed elevator was the most interesting. :)
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"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."

Fate whispers to the warrior "You cannot withstand the storm" and the warrior whispers back "I AM THE STORM"

Offline Puma44

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Re: Shutting off plane engine to listen for GVs
« Reply #35 on: February 04, 2017, 10:09:18 PM »
Yikes!  Do tell.  That's gotta be an interesting story.



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Offline colmbo

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Re: Shutting off plane engine to listen for GVs
« Reply #36 on: February 04, 2017, 11:36:25 PM »
Cessna 206 hauling skydivers.  Normal drill was as last jumper exits I'd roll right as they left the step, a little top rudder to swing the jump door closed then hard roll left so I could see jumped below, release back pressure on yoke allowing the nose drop steeply and increase throttle to bring power up to bottom of green arc of manifold pressure for descent then ease the nose up to normal descent attitude and trim for the descent.  My technique would get the nose way down, probably 30-40 degrees and allow me to eat up a bunch of altitude before the speed got up near redline -- descent normally made about 10-15 mph below redline.

On this drop as I steeply nose low and brought the power in as the speed increased the nose started pitching up.  I think I must of been out of trim on jump run and put forward pressure on the yoke but nose keeps coming up.  More forward pressure and I realize the yoke isn't moving. WTF?

I take a quick look over my right should at the tail and jammed between the end of the stab and the elevator mass balance I see the fingers of a glove. The glove is in the small space between the stab and mass balance jamming the elevator at about 2/3s up.

Rut roh.  By now the nose is well above the horizon and speed decaying so rolled knife edge left to let the nose fall back through the horizon, it took a couple repeats until I damped things out and found a power setting to give me a nice gliding descent at about 65 IAS.

I got on the radio to manifest (happened to be my wife working the radio) and tell her "Bobbi, I have a control issue with the airplane.  I'm overhead moving south toward the flats (large unpopulated tidal flat area), get someone outside to get eyes on me in case I have to get out of the airplane."  She replied with a simple "Roger!"  She hollered for the bosses wife who went to wake the aircraft owner from his nap.

I switched to Approach and let them know I had a problem and asked them to track my position in case I had to bail out.  I zipped up the flight suit, snugged up the parachute harness straps, put my gloves on and did some mental bail out practice.  The boss came on the radio, we chatted and both pretty much came up with the same plan...try to work the glove out to free the elevator.  I most likely could land with the elevator jammed but our DZ runway was surrounded by trees, hill on the approach end and homes at each end of the runway.  If I had tried to land it I would have gone to Anchorage and used one of their 10000' runways to give me room to work things out.

To free it I first pulled. It took a very hard pull to move the yoke only to have it stick again.  A hard push move it forward a couple of inches where it again jammed and the a/c started to build up speed.  With each movement the yoke seemed to move a bit easier so I assumed I was probably cutting through the glove.  I yanked again getting it about back to the original position resulting in a nice pitch up and zoom, rolled knife edge again at the top to let nose fall, once back to horizon rolled level and gave a big push.  Yoke went way forward and stuck, pitched down hard enough my shins came up and banged bottom of the panel with the dive steeping quickly.  I almost got out.  Thinking it's the last chance to fix it I heaved aft on the yoke and felt it come free...feel back to normal.  Recovered from the dive and radioed to Bobbi that everything was back to normal.  While doing the octaflugeron to clear this up I would hear snippets of the boss on the radio, broken transmissions that I didn't have time for. :)  What I didn't realize is the web on my glove was intermittently keying the push to talk and they were hearing snippets of my grunting, pleading, cussing with the airplane and it was causing some concern on the ground.

Once of the ground we found the aluminum skin edges in the area where the glove was jammed were slightly deformed.

We assumed the glove was in the sleve of a student jumpsuit, the jumpers on that load weren't missing any gear.

I made a new rule --- all future jumps would be nude to prevent a repeat.
Columbo

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."

Fate whispers to the warrior "You cannot withstand the storm" and the warrior whispers back "I AM THE STORM"

Offline haggerty

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Re: Shutting off plane engine to listen for GVs
« Reply #37 on: February 05, 2017, 01:59:34 AM »
There would be little reason for the engine to not restart, this isnt hollywood.  I'd be ok with a 0.05% chance of not restarting.
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Offline Bruv119

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Re: Shutting off plane engine to listen for GVs
« Reply #38 on: February 05, 2017, 02:06:01 AM »
GV's are ruining the game so anything that helps newer players find them and attack them is ok with me. 

I use the old Mk1 eyeball because Gv's can quite easily kill their engine.    :devil
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Offline BuckShot

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Re: Shutting off plane engine to listen for GVs
« Reply #39 on: February 05, 2017, 07:41:56 AM »
Good story colmbo. Thanks for sharing.
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Offline Puma44

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Re: Shutting off plane engine to listen for GVs
« Reply #40 on: February 05, 2017, 09:00:30 AM »
Great story Colombo!  Good job keeping at a solution.  Solid airmanship! :salute



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Offline icepac

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Re: Shutting off plane engine to listen for GVs
« Reply #41 on: February 05, 2017, 10:22:37 AM »
Not hearing anything on the ground.



Offline Dobs

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Re: Shutting off plane engine to listen for GVs
« Reply #42 on: February 06, 2017, 11:22:21 AM »
Not hearing anything on the ground.




Biggest thing to note is how you DON'T hear that radial sound overhead until he opens cockpit....see thread...http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,383785.0.html
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Offline Krusty

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Re: Shutting off plane engine to listen for GVs
« Reply #43 on: February 06, 2017, 01:52:18 PM »
Note that this is also a heavily-filtered audio feed, meant to cut out loud noises because otherwise it would "blow out" the audio on the recording. It's not an accurate recording of what YOU would hear if you were in that spot. Also there are modern considerations now found in WW2 aircraft. How much sound does a hard shell helmet over your ears muffle now? In WW2 they had leather helmets and very basic ear cups. Many bomber pilots still suffer major hearing loss along certain frequencies because the protection was inadequate and all the noise came through. That's taboo this day and age, but back then? The technology was in its infancy and there was a war on. Also, the thin primitive plastic materials used for canopies back then as compared to now, the sound deadening capabilities of the same canopies then vs now.

I'm not saying you could hear a pindrop. I'm not saying you SHOULD hear other planes' engines all the time. What I am saying is that tank divisions made LOTS of noise. They were a creaking clanking and THUNDERING noise often heard for miles over the horizon by people on the ground. At low altitudes and with an engine windmilling, it would be quite loud and is very within the realm of possibility. Was it done? I don't know. I'm saying the possibility is there that if it was done, it would work. Same as with us flying planes with almost no fuel off the runway, or firing off 1000x 7mm MGs to lighten your load because you decided you wanted to turn fight better -- never done, but realistic and "possible."

Offline Puma44

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Re: Shutting off plane engine to listen for GVs
« Reply #44 on: February 06, 2017, 04:01:47 PM »
GV's are ruining the game so anything that helps newer players find them and attack them is ok with me. 

The horde mentality in the air to air arena is also ruining the game.



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