Author Topic: TIME TO KILL BUZZSAW!!!!  (Read 11229 times)

Offline Vraciu

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13982
Re: TIME TO KILL BUZZSAW!!!!
« Reply #45 on: February 20, 2017, 02:21:49 PM »
Until you have built a terrain, you have no idea what goes into it or is required by the rules. There are requirements/rules to building a terrain for the main arena. If you do not know those requirements then you are unable to actually say what should and should not be in a terrain.

Bogus argument. 

Many of this map's worst features are OPTIONAL. 

I don't have to build a brick wall to know how it is done. 
« Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 03:55:36 PM by Vraciu »
”KILLER V”
Charter Member of the P-51 Mustang Skin Mafia
King of the Hill Champ, Tour 219
The Damned
King of the Hill Win Percentage - 100 (1 Win, 0 Losses)

Offline Randy1

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4216
Re: TIME TO KILL BUZZSAW!!!!
« Reply #46 on: February 20, 2017, 03:00:10 PM »
Until you have built a terrain, you have no idea what goes into it or is required by the rules. There are requirements/rules to building a terrain for the main arena. If you do not know those requirements then you are unable to actually say what should and should not be in a terrain.

This is so true.  When we complain about a map, we should first hold the map's creator in the highest regard then suggest changes in a constructive way.  I do not think I could create a map even if I knew how.

Offline Vraciu

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13982
Re: TIME TO KILL BUZZSAW!!!!
« Reply #47 on: February 20, 2017, 03:56:19 PM »
This is so true.  When we complain about a map, we should first hold the map's creator in the highest regard then suggest changes in a constructive way.  I do not think I could create a map even if I knew how.

Respect should be conferred, yes, but to say I have to build a map in order to critique one is nonsense.
”KILLER V”
Charter Member of the P-51 Mustang Skin Mafia
King of the Hill Champ, Tour 219
The Damned
King of the Hill Win Percentage - 100 (1 Win, 0 Losses)

Offline bustr

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12436
Re: TIME TO KILL BUZZSAW!!!!
« Reply #48 on: February 20, 2017, 04:06:38 PM »
Until you have built a terrain, you have no idea what goes into it or is required by the rules. There are requirements/rules to building a terrain for the main arena. If you do not know those requirements then you are unable to actually say what should and should not be in a terrain.

The rules are pretty simple related to the distance of different kinds of feilds from other kinds of feilds. Having the same number of feilds in each country. Having HQ\strat for each country and no obvious imbalances in field placement that favor the host country or the 2 other countries. And small stuff like the minimum distance from a field to set GV and PT spawns. And the design concepts, most players who create terrains have been around long enough to have played on a large number of terrains. And they have a library of design concepts to pull up as offline terrains and look at to help them with their current labor of love.

Buzzsaw adheres to the rules while the rational appears to be using elevation to cause air combat, spawns out the yazoo to cause GV combat, and the task groups corralled so they cannot be hidden while forced into constant combat exposure. Someone listened to all the busy itching in the forums about no fights, hiding CVs, spawn camping, and running away. And it worked until the majority who are shy about flinging themselves into the fray figured out how to turn buzzsaw into any other MA terrain. This is an example of a forced to fight terrain and it didn't force anyone to fight after the first month in rotation. So all of the MA standard fight avoidance strategies forced the fight kinds of guys out of the arena because that is the weakness to a forced fighting terrain. If the fight avoiders show up , it's in groups to saturate their target and overwhelm anyone who wants to fight.

Now the fights kind of guys are busy itching that a forced fight terrain is garbage when they spent years trying to get someone to come up with a terrain to force all of those HOnRun back shooting sissies to stand and fight. There is no main arena terrain design that can force anyone to fight, unless it is engineered to spawn all of the combatants within 3000yds of each other with nowhere to run because it's only 10milesx10miles. This is one of the things that becomes obvious after you build a terrain for the MA.

Buzzsaw has air spawns if you look at the terrain with the right perspective. All of those central 7-9k feilds that allow unskilled HO tastic hoards to sweep the lower elevation feilds. Remember those forum requests for air spawns in the MA and how that would solve some generally unspecified problem with game play? How do you like your air spawns now? Buzzsaw is kind of a crap terrain because it looks to have been designed by a "committee" of you guys who always complained in here about no fights and other lame game play. Someone took your complaints to heart and gave you what you were demanding.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Vraciu

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13982
Re: TIME TO KILL BUZZSAW!!!!
« Reply #49 on: February 20, 2017, 04:42:47 PM »
The ack settings make air combat in the center pretty much impossible.

Is this the chicken or the egg?  The cart or the horse?

Either way, it needs fixing.
”KILLER V”
Charter Member of the P-51 Mustang Skin Mafia
King of the Hill Champ, Tour 219
The Damned
King of the Hill Win Percentage - 100 (1 Win, 0 Losses)

Offline bustr

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12436
Re: TIME TO KILL BUZZSAW!!!!
« Reply #50 on: February 20, 2017, 05:54:21 PM »
The ack settings make air combat in the center pretty much impossible.

Is this the chicken or the egg?  The cart or the horse?

Either way, it needs fixing.

You do know you are free to build a better egg, right??
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Vraciu

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13982
Re: TIME TO KILL BUZZSAW!!!!
« Reply #51 on: February 20, 2017, 06:43:59 PM »
You do know you are free to build a better egg, right??

Yep.   Entirely irrelevant, however.

In any case, I choose to do skins instead.   I seek input on them so I can make them better.    Input was sought on this map and I gave mine BECAUSE THE QUESTION WAS ASKED.  It wasn't like I just put "BUZZSAW MAP SUCKS" in neon lights somewhere...

”KILLER V”
Charter Member of the P-51 Mustang Skin Mafia
King of the Hill Champ, Tour 219
The Damned
King of the Hill Win Percentage - 100 (1 Win, 0 Losses)

Offline Squire

  • Aces High CM Staff (Retired)
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7683
Re: TIME TO KILL BUZZSAW!!!!
« Reply #52 on: February 20, 2017, 08:24:30 PM »
Hang on I will get the extension cord.
Warloc
Friday Squad Ops CM Team
1841 Squadron Fleet Air Arm
Aces High since Tour 24

Offline BBQsam

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 482
Re: TIME TO KILL BUZZSAW!!!!
« Reply #53 on: February 20, 2017, 09:16:01 PM »
Well it is settled then. The majority want Buzzsaw.  Therefore it will remain in the rotation.
"I have really only one simple rule,
Give more to the game than you take away."
Zoney  December 23, 2009  ahbbs
--------------------------------------------------
<Salute> Pipz    September 27, 2017   RIP

Offline Vraciu

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13982
Re: TIME TO KILL BUZZSAW!!!!
« Reply #54 on: February 20, 2017, 09:16:35 PM »
Well it is settled then. The majority want Buzzsaw.  Therefore it will remain in the rotation.

When was the vote taken?
”KILLER V”
Charter Member of the P-51 Mustang Skin Mafia
King of the Hill Champ, Tour 219
The Damned
King of the Hill Win Percentage - 100 (1 Win, 0 Losses)

Offline BBQsam

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 482
Re: TIME TO KILL BUZZSAW!!!!
« Reply #55 on: February 20, 2017, 09:34:31 PM »
off topic

 :salute F-35 SLUFF

----

back to topic
"I have really only one simple rule,
Give more to the game than you take away."
Zoney  December 23, 2009  ahbbs
--------------------------------------------------
<Salute> Pipz    September 27, 2017   RIP

Offline Vraciu

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13982
Re: TIME TO KILL BUZZSAW!!!!
« Reply #56 on: February 20, 2017, 10:08:18 PM »
off topic

 :salute F-35 SLUFF

----

back to topic



FTW!   :rock  :salute
”KILLER V”
Charter Member of the P-51 Mustang Skin Mafia
King of the Hill Champ, Tour 219
The Damned
King of the Hill Win Percentage - 100 (1 Win, 0 Losses)

Offline Randy1

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4216
Re: TIME TO KILL BUZZSAW!!!!
« Reply #57 on: February 21, 2017, 05:57:40 AM »
Respect should be conferred, yes, but to say I have to build a map in order to critique one is nonsense.

True, as a player you can critique a map but it will be incomplete. The full critique could only come from a player and map builder.

Offline Vraciu

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13982
Re: TIME TO KILL BUZZSAW!!!!
« Reply #58 on: February 21, 2017, 11:43:26 AM »
True, as a player you can critique a map but it will be incomplete. The full critique could only come from a player and map builder.

A player can critique the map fully based on playability without having ever even opened an editor.   He may not fully grasp the difficulty in building one but that aspect is irrelevant to commentary on functionality.   It either works or it doesn't.

I fully realize building a map is tough.   That being said, there are many less-than-ideal aspects of Buzzsaw.    The how's and the why's don't change that fact nor does one's experience (or lack thereof) in map-making.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2017, 01:59:33 PM by Vraciu »
”KILLER V”
Charter Member of the P-51 Mustang Skin Mafia
King of the Hill Champ, Tour 219
The Damned
King of the Hill Win Percentage - 100 (1 Win, 0 Losses)

Offline Zoney

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6503
Re: TIME TO KILL BUZZSAW!!!!
« Reply #59 on: February 21, 2017, 12:09:05 PM »
To have any value to your critique, you would need to know what rules are in place for building maps, and the difficulty in making a playable map using those rules.  Anyone is allowed to critique, sure, but if you have no clue what you are talking about that critique has "diminished value".
Wag more, bark less.