Author Topic: Speaking of RAM....  (Read 4694 times)

Offline Rich46yo

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Re: Speaking of RAM....
« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2017, 04:22:49 PM »
Thanks. Last time I noticed a spike after a FR drop. I disabled Vsync and seemed to do better. Ive ran Trend Micro for years without issues I think I'll shut that off next.
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Offline Pudgie

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Re: Speaking of RAM....
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2017, 08:02:37 AM »
Just found a 16Gb 4x4Gb kit of Corsair Vengence LPX DDR4 3000 CL 15 w\ red heat spreaders that is faster than my current 2133 set at a sale price of $129.95 (cheapest price on Newegg....all other brands are more expensive & these are the fastest quad channel 16Gb set out there until you get past 3400 as long as the CL stays at 16 but the price on those is "WHEW!!!!"

I'm probably gonna spring for these......should squeeze a little more performance out of my little box....and give me a little color contrast as well on the ole Gigabyte X99M Gaming 5 mobo............

FYI.............

 :salute



Got these over the weekend and have them installed and all came up just fine.
The latency improvements w\ these 3000 mem modules vs my 2133 mem modules are very noticeable.....everything executes faster and AHIII runs much, much smoother now (MSI AB GPU frametime graphs bear this out).

Here's the math:
2133^13 = 164MHz per clock tick, 3000^15 = 200MHz per clock tick so the Corsair Vengence LPX 3000 DDR4 CL 15 4x4Gb mem kit is the faster kit performance-wise and the results that I've witnessed back this up.

From running the numbers I've noted that from 2133 to 2400 there isn't much of a change (164 vs 170) and between 3000 to 3200 there is no change at all (both @ 200) so the mem module performance threshold seems to be from 2133 to 3000 then from 3400 up....as long as the CL numbers hold.

FYI..........................

 :salute
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Offline MADe

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Re: Speaking of RAM....
« Reply #32 on: March 27, 2017, 09:33:42 PM »
pudgie,
 what uncore multiplier you using?
what qpi link freq?

older knowledge tells me that uncore freq should be double ram. me, since I use 3000MHz ram, thats 1500MHz /direction, so I set uncore to 3000MHz, x30.

I just read something about where cpu cache sizes work with the qpi freq.
ie: I have a 15MB cache cpu, so it can use 8 GT/s qpi link freq.

I bring this up cuz you talking about 3000MHz ram perf. Wondered about your bios choices for ram?
and I'm OCing cpu and stuffs being slowly remembered from my x58 OC........................

 :salute
« Last Edit: March 27, 2017, 09:40:15 PM by MADe »
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Offline Pudgie

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Re: Speaking of RAM....
« Reply #33 on: March 27, 2017, 09:53:41 PM »
pudgie,
 what uncore multiplier you using?
what qpi link freq?

older knowledge tells me that uncore freq should be double ram. me, since I use 3000MHz ram, thats 1500MHz /direction, so I set uncore to 3000MHz, x30.

I just read something about where cpu cache sizes work with the qpi freq.
ie: I have a 15MB cache cpu, so it can use 8 GT/s qpi link freq.

I bring this up cuz you talking about 3000MHz perf. Wondered about your bios choices for ram?
and I'm OCing cpu and stuffs being slowly remembered from my x58 OC........................

 :salute

Hi MADe,

I didn't do anything but swap out the mem modules. Upon bootup, the Gigabyte F22 UEFI auto set the new mem modules thru the mem SPD to the exact uncore settings that you've posted along w\ the rated timings. This is the only thing that I checked the UEFI for. As far as the QPI freq, I really haven't checked this.....but my CPU (I7 5820K Haswell-E) also has a 15Mb L3 cache, running on an Intel X99 platform (which also has the exact same QPI vers & freq by specification), even though the mobo manuf's are different so at this time I'm assuming that this would also be the same.

Thanks for bringing this up.......got some checking to do. Hadn't really put any thought to any of this since the mem modules did set properly in the UEFI thru the SPD embedded in them.

Catching the flu over the weekend didn't help any either...................

The mem performance improvement was very noticeable from the get go.

 :salute
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Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: Speaking of RAM....
« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2017, 10:22:00 PM »
Out of curiosity, how many people stress test their System Memory after they install/upgrade it? with something like memtest86 or memtest86+ or some other program...

I stress test all my computer builds and if upgrading certain components, stress test them as well...

I know several of y'all are diehard system tweakers, and am figuring that this is part of your guidelines

TC
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Offline Pudgie

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Re: Speaking of RAM....
« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2017, 10:29:42 PM »
This is a quick pass on this.......................


Here is what Intel has to say concerning the X99 chipset platform:

http://ark.intel.com/products/81761/Intel-X99-Chipset

Here is what Intel has to say concerning the I7 5820K CPU that I'm using:

http://ark.intel.com/products/82932/Intel-Core-i7-5820K-Processor-15M-Cache-up-to-3_60-GHz

Here is what Intel has to say concerning the I7 6850K CPU that you're using:

http://ark.intel.com/products/94188/Intel-Core-i7-6850K-Processor-15M-Cache-up-to-3_80-GHz

According to the X99 chipset data, there isn't a QPI present (as would be w\ a X58 platform), only a DMI 2.0 link rated at 5 GT\s (between the X99 chipset's I\O controller and the integrated Intel mem controller located on the mobo) so the CPU's would have to be linked to the same mem controller thru the on-die CPU FSB between the L3 cache and the integrated mem controller.....at least from my observation as I haven't found any documentation on this yet.

 :salute
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Offline Pudgie

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Re: Speaking of RAM....
« Reply #36 on: March 28, 2017, 10:04:23 AM »
Here are block diagrams of a X58 & X99 platform:

 :salute
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Offline Pudgie

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Re: Speaking of RAM....
« Reply #37 on: March 28, 2017, 11:33:01 AM »
Out of curiosity, how many people stress test their System Memory after they install/upgrade it? with something like memtest86 or memtest86+ or some other program...

I stress test all my computer builds and if upgrading certain components, stress test them as well...

I know several of y'all are diehard system tweakers, and am figuring that this is part of your guidelines

TC

Hi TC,

I usually run stress tests on my components as well to ensure fidelity & performance, but I haven't performed any mem module stress testing since I've upgraded to the X79 & X99 Intel platforms due to the copy of memtest86 that I had at the time wasn't compatible. I had already downloaded the correct versions of memtest86 & memtest86+ for these platforms but need to get an empty mem stick to set it up on so that I can use it.

But since using these particular Intel X series platforms I haven't had any issues that I could detect w\ mem modules not working OK so I've gotten a little lazy about finishing up my mem testing suite..............

 :)

I wasn't having any issues w\ my Corsair Vengence LPX DDR4 2133 CL13 4x4Gb mem kit as all was working fine. I had come to a conclusion when I upgraded to this X99 platform to go w\ a 16Gb 4x4Gb quad-channel mem kit w\ the lowest CL number certified for this platform as this would represent the fastest mem modules from a latency standpoint & from using a 2133 frequency set of DDR3 mem modules on my X79 platform figured that 2133 would be enough. All was good...........until I read this thread & read Skuzzy's post which got me to rethink all this so I went on Newegg & started running performance numbers on all the different DDR4 mem modules & found what Skuzzy had said concerning using the frequency numbers alone was indeed misleading, but also using the CL numbers alone would cause 1 to leave some mem performance behind. I know that all this can be manipulated thru mem timings changes and such but I've given up on doing all this & just go w\ the mem's SPD. When I ran the numbers on a set of DDR4 3000 w\ CL 15 & found the MHz\clock tick results were large enough above my existing mem modules to get me to consider getting a set I stumbled across a set of the very same Corsair Vengence LPX DDR4 4x4Gb mem kit using 3000 frequency w\ CL 15 that were certified to work w\ my X99 platform on sale for $129.95....the cheapest of any comparable 16Gb quad channel mem module kits Newegg had as all others were more expensive....most were by a fair amount to boot. The only thing concerning these was that they had the red heatspreaders on them instead of the black ones & the exact same Corsair mem set that had the black heatspreaders weren't on sale at this time. But since I have a Gigabyte X99M Gaming 5 mobo w\ red\black color accents this wasn't a problem so I got these to see if these performance numbers would hold up & I could see\measure the difference.

All I did was pull my old set out, pop these new ones in, boot up into the UEFI to check for conformity to the SPD info....all had autoset as expected w\o any issue...all settings matched the SPD info....saved & rebooted & the rest is history.

I will be using this MHz\clock tick formula vs cost going forward to determine mem module performance capability. Will be waiting on Skuzzy to present his graphs to show the hold\transition time as well as the wait states to get a total idea of mem module performance. I've checked all over the Internet so far & haven't found any charts on this subject that were definitive enough to understand\use.

Now you know where I'm at.............

 :salute

Provided below is a MSI AB graph of my box running AHIII w\ this new Corsair mem. Note the GPU frametime graph line.......this is the best my FuryX has ever done.....says something about the importance of mem module MHz\clock tick performance capability to adequately feed a big GPU to allow said GPU to maintain graphics frame timing as well as all other aspects (CPU, mem controller, DMA controller, etc). And you can clearly see a graphics screen pause captured as well.................

 :salute
« Last Edit: March 28, 2017, 12:21:08 PM by Pudgie »
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Offline MADe

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Re: Speaking of RAM....
« Reply #38 on: March 28, 2017, 01:15:18 PM »
TC,
I have not memtested in awhile, my ram has always worked since going Kingston. I had some corsair highend sticks that were failing and memtest was invaluable.

Pudgie,
 So ur just PnP things? 

I was as well but since beginning the OC process, auto selections are bad news for moi. there are certain relationships between BCLK, Vcore, uncore and qpi freq's that cannot be pushed to far and I need specificity. X99 is different from the x58, terms changed, things became more isolated.

 :salute

my x58 has been pushing a i7 920DO to 4GHz for 9years, a 3GHz cpu system is to slow for moi now. he he
wanna see some graph numbers change, OC that cpu.......................... ...
« Last Edit: March 28, 2017, 01:17:03 PM by MADe »
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Offline Pudgie

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Re: Speaking of RAM....
« Reply #39 on: March 28, 2017, 02:32:36 PM »
TC,
I have not memtested in awhile, my ram has always worked since going Kingston. I had some corsair highend sticks that were failing and memtest was invaluable.

Pudgie,
 So ur just PnP things? 

I was as well but since beginning the OC process, auto selections are bad news for moi. there are certain relationships between BCLK, Vcore, uncore and qpi freq's that cannot be pushed to far and I need specificity. X99 is different from the x58, terms changed, things became more isolated.

 :salute

my x58 has been pushing a i7 920DO to 4GHz for 9years, a 3GHz cpu system is to slow for moi now. he he
wanna see some graph numbers change, OC that cpu.......................... ...

Yep, MADe pretty much all is PnP concerning the mem & my CPU w\ the exception of HT & CEIST being disabled on the CPU in the UEFI.
One of the side benefits of this new mem's SPD settings is that it upped my CPU's stock Turbo Boost clocks by 100 MHz....now clocking 3.7GHz instead of 3.6GHz by the mem SPD setting the uncore clock multi at 30x.

I ran a test on my prior mem & recorded the overlay readings in real time w\ my CPU set @ full stock TB clocks (3.6GHz) then ran another using CEIST enabled then going thru the Balanced power plan to set the Min Processor Power at 80% which set the lower CPU clock speed around 2.7GHz when CEIST detects a low CPU load\usage which clearly shows that AHIII doesn't need a lot of CPU clock speed as long as the necessary number of active CPU cores are used to maintain the necessary amount of CPU processing time to optimize the game threads to optimize the GPU performance (the CPU clock speeds stayed around the low power set @ 2.7GHz for the majority of the video run) which in both tests the GPU FPS was clocking at 90 FPS w\ MSI AB graphs showing the same similar, smooth frametime lines.

This is why I am staying at the stock settings as I just can't see any real benefit to OC the CPU to get any more performance from AHIII from the CPU side of things over what the stock Turbo Boost control can provide....outside of increasing CPU core temps & power usage. I may have been able to OC the 2133 mem DIMMS to run at 3000 w\ the relaxed timings to achieve the same results as noted w\ the new DIMMS but I don't believe they would have been stable in the process set up as Quad Channel.....would have been easier to do w\ 2 8Gb DIMMS set up in Dual Channel IMHO.....but the reason for buying this platform was to run the mem in quad channel for the data thruput capability..........

Over the years I have become convinced that w\ the advancements of hardware which have to a certain extent included some overclocking within the "stock settings" that I have no appetite to go past these ranges anymore........so in essence I have been "assimilated".

 :D

 :salute
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Offline MADe

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Re: Speaking of RAM....
« Reply #40 on: March 28, 2017, 10:19:53 PM »
I do not OC for AH, I OC to get the most out of my mid tier hardware choices. AH benefits as an unintended consequence.................. ...  :cheesy:

i7 920 stock is 2.66GHz, but I have it at 4.0GHz. $200 price tag for $1000 performance.
i7 6850 is stock at 3.6GHz, I now have it at 4.5GHz. This is what some new new "lake" cpus can do.

Believe when I say you notice a 4.0GHz+ cpu envirionment. I say this cuz ultimately a faster cpu helps everything, high MHz ram to video and sound cards.

Also you seem to like the battery/power saving strats that are inheirant in all OS and mobos, why? if I may ask. Why care about battery powered unit practices on a desktop?

Same reasoning behind useing a wired pc connect over wifi connect, for me........................I turn it off, disable it, uninstall it, if it useless bloat or stuff I do not require. Making the pc handle gaming well ensures that it will work well for whatever I choose to do with it.
 
:salute

bit of a hijack but IMO its relevant to ram performance....



« Last Edit: March 28, 2017, 10:23:34 PM by MADe »
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Offline Pudgie

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Re: Speaking of RAM....
« Reply #41 on: April 10, 2017, 06:23:09 PM »
For those so inclined, here is a good spreadsheet to use to make runs on various mem modules to know which is the faster performing mem modules:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NUcp5ICqiPHfr_uw1zmV_44QazuvsSjjTu-H4KyVfpg/edit#gid=2008389493

The 1st word results determine the faster mem modules....the lower this ns number is the faster the mem module will perform........

FYI.......................... ...

 :salute

PS--I typed in the Corsair Vengence LPX 2133 DDR4 mem set that I had installed prior & the Corsair Vengence LPX 3000 DDR4 mem set I have installed now to provide a comparison...........
« Last Edit: April 10, 2017, 06:37:54 PM by Pudgie »
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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Speaking of RAM....
« Reply #42 on: April 11, 2017, 02:52:55 AM »
For plying new games today I'd say no less than 16 gigs. Playing Mass Effect Andromeda now and my system is using upwards of 12 gigs. I'm sure you can run it with less, but it clearly can use 12.
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Offline alskahawk

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Re: Speaking of RAM....
« Reply #43 on: April 16, 2017, 10:19:18 AM »
I doubt there's that much difference between 8 and 16 gigs of ram. There isn't that much difference between ram speeds either. You might be able to run some diagnostic and but frame rate....Not so much.

Offline Drano

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Re: Speaking of RAM....
« Reply #44 on: April 16, 2017, 01:24:05 PM »
I ran memtest on my system when I put it together. I have 16GB on it, think the set was on sale at the time. Corsair vengeance. I'd also read on an overclocking site that clocking the ram on my 2600-k system would yield negligible results so I just left it at stock and clocked the CPU to 4.6k.

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