P-51D Mustang - 4th FG, 334FS - Maj. Howard Hively

[Vraciu]

That image is not in the Sun.

Here is a flat black car in the Sun.
(Image removed from quote.)

That car looks semi-matte to me.

The SBD I photographed is in direct high powered lighting on top and ambient sunlight on one side.   It has zero gloss to it from any angle.   Certainly nothing like I am being told it should be.

These are in direct light.  With the exception of the semi-flat panel on the S-2 the rest remain flat.    They do not exhibit anything close to what Hitech is saying about my P-51 above.   If the above is flat paint then metal is going to be pure white.   The nose of the Hornet is a prime example.  The black remains charcoal.  It doesn't flare to white.  It is nowhere CLOSE to shiny or reflective.   It's dull.



Not being argumentative here, just pointing out what I see.  I just passed a park bench in direct sunlight.  It's charcoal gray and the light does not wash it out to white.   

Just got home so I am going to take a look at your mods to the spec files.  Be right back.

[Vraciu]

This image on the wings is what I would expect for a mat/non shiny surface.

(Image removed from quote.)

HiTech

Other than tone they look quite similar.   That and the default is lumpier than mine.   

 

I'm trying to get this right...   About the only thing I can think of is to go whiter on the NMF parts in the Spec Map.

[Skuzzy]

That car looks semi-matte to me.

The SBD I photographed is in direct high powered lighting on top and ambient sunlight on one side.   It has zero gloss to it from any angle.   Certainly nothing like I am being told it should be.

These are in direct light.  With the exception of the semi-flat panel on the S-2 the rest remain flat.    They do not exhibit anything close to what Hitech is saying about my P-51 above.   If the above is flat paint then metal is going to be pure white.   The nose of the Hornet is a prime example.  The black remains charcoal.  It doesn't flare to white.  It is nowhere CLOSE to shiny or reflective.   It's dull.

(Image removed from quote.)

Not being argumentative here, just pointing out what I see.  I just passed a park bench in direct sunlight.  It's charcoal gray and the light does not wash it out to white.   

Just got home so I am going to take a look at your mods to the spec files.  Be right back.

(Image removed from quote.)

You are not catching much specular in that image.  The car image is a perfect example of the full range of specular on flat paint.  Yes, that is flat paint.  However, it is not oxidized.  It is still fresh.

Catch the Sun reflecting directly off the surface of a large area of the plane, then you have a good shot of specular.

[Vraciu]

You are not catching much specular in that image.  The car image is a perfect example of the full range of specular on flat paint.  Yes, that is flat paint.  However, it is not oxidized.  It is still fresh.

Catch the Sun reflecting directly off the surface of a large area of the plane, then you have a good shot of specular.

My offer still stands.  I will meet you any time you're up for it at the CAF Museum or Cavanaugh Flight Museum and show you exactly what I'm talking about.   Lunch is on me.   

I spent hours looking at airplane's in direct sunlight on that flight deck.  They do not all flare up like you guys are insisting.    I spent hours looking at all different types of paint colors, textures, etc.. in every conceivable form of light from early morning until late afternoon with nothing on my mind other than AH3 skins.   

Dark bark on a tree in direct light does not turn white.    Neither does truly flat paint.   I will continue to keep looking because I am determined to get this right.

That said, I don't care at this point, I just want to get my skins in the game.   If you want them to look like anything from a McDonald's sign to the inside of a cave that's totally fine by me.  But I'm still needing a bit of advice on the spec maps.

Thanks for your help thus far.   

[Vraciu]

Not catching specular in which image?   The belly shot?

You want it to shine MORE?????   

Let me try that then...

[Vraciu]

Some factory lines in the 40's.

Found an article where the poster showed a progression of the wing ageing over months of use. Clean from the factory the panels are not visible nor the rivets. As the wing flexes from use you start seeing the rivets as faint dimples with angled light on the surface. The panel lines pick up stains, but are still filled but have become visible lines due to the stains.

So if you do a factory fresh the wings have no lines or rivets but, even aged the lines and rivets don't look like other wings with no puttying and filling.


(Image removed from quote.)


(Image removed from quote.)


(Image removed from quote.)

I neglected to say thanks for posting these.   Always good to have reminders.   

[Greebo]

The skin looks good Vraciu but I'd like to suggest altering the paint chips so they aren't the same as your last skin.

As regards lighting effects I downloaded the effect maps you posted earlier to get the levels you are using in order to compare against mine. Your grey shades painted/metal are E=22/117, P=36/135 and S=34/129. Mine from the last P-47N I did are E=11/81, P=25/92 and S=49/127. So I am using a lot less environmental reflection than you, reduced sharpness on the power reflections and more specular on the painted areas, about the same on the metal. The effect of all this would be to make solar reflections more powerful on the painted areas but also more spread out, to prevent them looking too glossy. Also there will likely to be a bigger difference in shade from the areas in sunlight and in shadow on my skins, which I believe was the basis of HT's complaint.

[Vraciu]

The skin looks good Vraciu but I'd like to suggest altering the paint chips so they aren't the same as your last skin.

As regards lighting effects I downloaded the effect maps you posted earlier to get the levels you are using in order to compare against mine. Your grey shades painted/metal are E=22/117, P=36/135 and S=34/129. Mine from the last P-47N I did are E=11/81, P=25/92 and S=49/127. So I am using a lot less environmental reflection than you, reduced sharpness on the power reflections and more specular on the painted areas, about the same on the metal. The effect of all this would be to make solar reflections more powerful on the painted areas but also more spread out, to prevent them looking too glossy. Also there will likely to be a bigger difference in shade from the areas in sunlight and in shadow on my skins, which I believe was the basis of HT's complaint.

I will definitely change the paint chips as you suggest.    Unfortunately, I have nothing to go by other than the two photos and neither show the leading edge.   I also need to work on the flaps once I figure out what's going on with them.   Looks like it could either be melting ice sliding off or white paint there...

Thank you for those numbers.  The underside is NMF according to two sources just so we are clear on that point.   The photo seems to suggest that as well.

How do you guys wind up with those shades?  Is it a deliberate target or are you just eyeballing it and that's what you wind up with?

[Greebo]

That's just what I've ended up with for now and I usually fiddle around with those numbers based on how shiny any particular aircraft looks in the source photos. So if I were doing a NMF Mustang I'd probably make the silver painted wings a bit less shiny than the bare metal areas, but a lot shinier than the olive drab.

[Vraciu]

That's just what I've ended up with for now and I usually fiddle around with those numbers based on how shiny any particular aircraft looks in the source photos. So if I were doing a NMF Mustang I'd probably make the silver painted wings a bit less shiny than the bare metal areas, but a lot shinier than the olive drab.

I'll try it.  Just gotta' figure out WTH I need to do with each layer...

[Devil 505]

The E map handles reflecting colors and shapes. The S map only handles the reflection of light. For dull metal you want a light S but a dark E. Polished metal would be light for both.

[Vraciu]

The E map handles reflecting colors and shapes. The S map only handles the reflection of light. For dull metal you want a light S but a dark E. Polished metal would be light for both.

Got it.


Still can't figure out what's wrong with my painted surfaces.   I understand what Greebo is saying in terms of numbers, but I don't get the effect problem.    I don't see an issue with my shadows on my OD painted skins at all.   The shadows fall where they should.

It would help if what I see in the viewer is what I see in the game, but it isn't.    The light in the viewer makes things seem to wash out differently than the game does.    Does the viewer represent max light?

[Devil 505]

I never use the skin viewer, so I don't know. I examine my skins in game or in the film viewer.

[Vraciu]

I never use the skin viewer, so I don't know. I examine my skins in game or in the film viewer.

I have to do both because the game launch takes forever when all I want to do is see if I got two panel lines to meet.   But I don't blame you one bit.

I think the viewer in AH2 was closer to what was seen in the game than the AH3 viewer.   I am sure Hitech or Skuzzy mentioned what the light in the viewer equates to, but I forgot where it was said.

[Devil 505]

I use the film viewer for checking alignments and such. much quicker.