Spec/Power/Environment Adventures

[Fencer51]

No the Enviro, Spec and Power BMPs I uploaded in your other thread. 

Yes, put them in for Horse's Itch and see what it looks like.  I am interested in seeing if you get that shiny aspect with them.

[Devil 505]

No, the "gray paint" was the original version.   We adjusted it based on your input to add some blue to the hue.  Then Skuzzy said it was "not picking up much specularity" so I increased that.  Now it looks like I flew it through paraffin. 

What needs to be adjusted to kill the gel look? The _P map. metal areas need to be black on it.

1) The Default is widely considered to be the creme de la creme of Mustangs in the game. I agree with it being the best Mustang skin - but the spec files keep it from being perfect.    If it meets the standards being a converted AH2 skin then I don't see the problem with Horse's Itch, especially after Skuzzy's adjustments.    I also don't think the shine on the Red Nose (QP-J) was "off".   I think even you said so (though I could be wrong). I said it could do with some desaturation, but it does look acceptable to my eye like it is.


2) The issues with the normal map shown in the default are endemic to every skin in the game, including the B-29 Skuzzy was kind enough to create for us to show the effects of the maps.  (I wish he would pin that thread.)Very few skins made it through the conversion perfectly. And those that did were fully painted schemes.


Ultimately the changes I made to the NMF belly specularity on QP-J had a deleterious effect on the appearance of it overall.   If it did not come close to being worthy before I've since taken ten steps backwards.

So what to do? Just jeep swimming.

[Vraciu]

No the Enviro, Spec and Power BMPs I uploaded in your other thread. 

Yes, put them in for Horse's Itch and see what it looks like.  I am interested in seeing if you get that shiny aspect with them.

Ok.  Will do.

For clarity...   The skin I am wrestling with the most is that 4th FG one because of the metal belly.  Hitech and Skuzzy didn't like the shine.   Too dull is how I took it.

[Vraciu]

I didn't say YOU said it was off.  Skuzzy did.  Hitech did.   

Keep swimming.  Lol.

[Vraciu]

I've got my work cut out for me on this one. 

Gotta test Fencer's maps.   Adjust mine with black like Devil said.  Then study Skuzzy's, Greebo's (thanks for the email), Fencer's, and Devil's maps...

I think the light bulb 💡 is about to come on....dim though it may turn out to be. 

Thanks everyone.   

[Vraciu]

Okay guys.   

1) I took cues from all the maps I have (Skuzzy's, Devil's, Greebo's, and Fencer's).

2) I incorporated some of Bustr's comments on panel lines.

3) I took in every word that was offered in commentary by Hitech, Skuzzy, Lyric1, all the above named people, and others not listed here.

Let me know if this is anywhere near close to right.   There are a few things left to clean up and move around (paint chips, normal mapping, etc.) but I'm worried about the overall look.

<S>












The red somehow doesn't sit right with me though...

[Devil 505]

The OD looks good, but the panel lines from the normal map look overdone on the wings  over the puttied panel lines. Is this Fencer's normal map, perhaps?

I think you need to add more weathering to the underside. Oil, dirt, and general grime - anything to break up the monochrome look of the large metal panels.

Another thing that's been bugging me is the black rectangles you have for the radiator and oil cooler vents. Take a good look at Cactus' default for some insight on using gradients to mimic these recessed areas.

The red is too bright - looks like a cherry Popsicle. 

How do you like the red tailband on this 109?

[Vraciu]

The OD looks good, but the panel lines from the normal map look overdone on the wings  over the puttied panel lines. Is this Fencer's normal map, perhaps?

That's my original normal map prior to all these changes.   I will be doing it over again once I get everything settled.  I agree with you they're too heavy.

I think you need to add more weathering to the underside. Oil, dirt, and general grime - anything to break up the monochrome look of the large metal panels.

I also need to add some paint chips on the OD belly that are in the photo.   Good catch and reminder.

Another thing that's been bugging me is the black rectangles you have for the radiator and oil cooler vents. Take a good look at Cactus' default for some insight on using gradients to mimic these recessed areas.

They ARE gradiated.  I used Cactus' to tweak mine and they actually got worse.   The problem I'm having is they turn charcoal gray in shadow and look like hell.    I can't figure out what's causing them to flare up.

Here's how they were before I adjusted them.

The red is too bright - looks like a cherry Popsicle. 

LOL   And I've toned it down since we talked, too.   

How do you like the red tailband on this 109?

Not bad.  I think I need to land somewhere in between yours and mine based on the photo I am seeing (which hints at being fairly bright).  Desaturate more?




All things considered we've made a lot of progress in only a couple of days wouldn't you say?

[Vraciu]

I knocked off another six percent from the red.   Obviously the cowl lines are screwed now but I will wait to adjust them until after we land on the right color.

[Devil 505]

Red looks a bit better there. Try darkening it some.

The tail band is RGB 154,57,47


As for the gradient, are you making it black to transparent or black to white. Another tip for gradients: always make the layer stronger than you want and then lower the layer opacity to make it blend.

[Vraciu]

Red looks a bit better there. Try darkening it some.

The tail band is RGB 154,57,47


As for the gradient, are you making it black to transparent or black to white. Another tip for gradients: always make the layer stronger than you want and then lower the layer opacity to make it blend.

Black to dark gray. 

[Greebo]

To add to what Devil said about the underside grime here is a belly shot of a NMF P-51D. Look at all the dirt stains around the gun ports, behind the gear legs and tailwheel bay and around the oil and rad exit flaps. Also there are oil streaks being bent around the lower scoop on the lower wings. ou can also see a tone mismatch between gear doors and the wing.

[Vraciu]

To add to what Devil said about the underside grime here is a belly shot of a NMF P-51D. Look at all the dirt stains around the gun ports, behind the gear legs and tailwheel bay and around the oil and rad exit flaps. Also there are oil streaks being bent around the lower scoop on the lower wings. ou can also see a tone mismatch between gear doors and the wing.

(Image removed from quote.)

I have the tone mismatch already built in.   I can bump it up some.

Let me work on the other stuff.  I have ZERO skill here. 

[Devil 505]

Black to dark gray.

There's your problem. you're trying to replicate a simple shadow so just work from black to transparent.

Greebo's pic is a great example that shows just how dirty they could get. Replicate this level of weathering as best you can, then reduce the layer opacity of the weathering layers to a more moderate level. 

[Devil 505]

Something else looks odd to me - the OD green completely wrapping under the fuselage. I know you are basing this on the fact that the tailwheel door is green, but I just don't see somebody sliding under the plane to paint the bottom. Also, it looks like there are lighter patches on the fuselage below where the flaps sits when raised and also aft of the tailwheel. If I were doing this scheme, I'd paint the OD down the sides aft of the flaps and only as far down as the tailwheel doors.